The Dodger Legacy: Steve Garvey and Mark Whicker on Baseball's Golden Era

Announcer: 00:00:00

The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb. Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.

Bill Donohue: 00:00:26

Good evening. Hello again, everybody. Welcome to SPORTS Talk New York on WGB here in Merrick, Long Island, New York.

th day of January,: 2024

Well, tonight, tonight, tonight we have on the docket. First, we'll speak to one of the great first basemen of our generation. Steve Garvey will join us in the second half.

We'll welcome in the author of a new book coming from our friends out at Triumph Books in Chicago. The book is a biography of the late great Dodger pitcher Don Drysdale. It's titled up and In. The author is Mark Wicker.

The foreword of the book by incidentally has been written by Steve Garvey. So we got the hot stove heating up tonight. What's cooking seems to have kind of a distinct Dodger flavor tonight, so we'll go with that.

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tar, World Series champion in: 1981

Welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Steve Garvey. Steve, good evening.

Steve Garvey: 00:02:39

It's great to be with you and hear those wonderful Long island towns, you know, like Merrick and Free, of course. You know, you and I have talked before that my family roots are in Glen Cove and Hempstead, Wanton, Uniondale.

And Grandpa Joe Garvey was A Brooklyn policeman used to travel in and walk the streets of Brooklyn near Evans Field. So it's like being at home tonight. There you go, folks to be back with you.

Bill Donohue: 00:03:05

Yes, we got our old boy Steve Garvey with us. Now, you were born, though, in Tampa, and your parents had recently relocated from Long island and your father's roots come from County Cork.

Steve Garvey: 00:03:20

Absolutely. But just an addendum. Mom's. My mother's family was in Baldwin. Grandpa Winkler had a gas station on. Was it Route 27 there?

And so American Road, so the routes go to County Cork and a little over to Clare. And my great great grandparents were engineers, so they came around when the Panama Canal was being built and they got jobs there.

And of course, it was obviously very dangerous there. And they sent my grandfather Joe to New York where two of his uncles were detectives in New York City.

And unfortunately, my great great grandparents passed away there. They got malaria, which I think there were 8,000 people who died building the Panama Canal.

Bill Donohue: 00:04:07

But.

Steve Garvey: 00:04:08

But Grandpa made it back to New York and grew up there. And then his son, Joe Garvey was a prominent high school football player on the island with my Uncle Ferraro. And, you know, one thing led to another.

I grew up in Tampa, and. Great place to grow up, obviously. You know, warm weather and great baseball in the Tampa Bay area.

It's probably, you know, there's probably five or six hall of Famers and another seven or eight guys in that Tampa Bay area that could make up a pretty good All Star team.

Bill Donohue: 00:04:39

Yeah, you got Wade Boggs and a couple of guys living in the. In the Tampa Bay area.

And, of course, I used to talk to Monty Irvin, and I tell Monty, you and Ted Williams are not the only guys from this Citrus county in the Baseball hall of Fame. He said, what do you mean, we're the only ones here? I said, no, Dazzy Vance is buried in Homosassa.

So, yeah, he was happy to get relayed that piece of information, but, yeah, the Dazzler, another Dodger. Now, my folks are from County Kerry, Steve, so they say, you know what the best thing out of County Cork is, don't you?

Steve Garvey: 00:05:17

I don't know. Tell me.

Bill Donohue: 00:05:18

The road to Kerry.

Steve Garvey: 00:05:20

That's funny.

You know, over the years, you know, once your career starts to grow, and obviously, you know, the Dodgers and the Yankees, I think, two great histories. And all the Irishmen see, you know, Stephen Patrick Garvey playing. And I used to get a couple pieces of mail from Ireland every year.

And one time I got a piece with a Picture on it, and it was the side of a big barn. It said, garvey, go home.

And I'm thinking, oh, no, it wasn't a distant uncle, but wrote me a nice letter about, you know, watching me over the pond, so to speak, and that there was somebody by Garvey running for constable there. And it was a divided audience, obviously. Sounds like America does.

Bill Donohue: 00:06:02

Yeah, I was going to say that's my household, Steve. Yeah, we're on. My wife is on one side and I'm on the other. I won't tell you which side, but we'll talk later.

She's on the other side, if you know what I mean. Who were your favorite teams when you were a kid? I know you were a bat boy for the Brooklyn Dodgers during spring training down there.

Who were your favorite teams and players when you were a boy?

Steve Garvey: 00:06:28

Well, mom was a Yankee fan. Dad was a Brooklyn Dodger fan because of his dad being that Brooklyn policeman. So it was a house divided. But, you know, growing up in the.

In the 50s and 60s, mom gloated a lot, you know, until 55, when the Dodgers won their first world championship in seven games with the Padres. Pitched a pretty good game. They went two to nothing. And, you know, that's the first world championship, and everybody talks about it.

I remember all the old Dodgers talking about that first one. You know, you never forget the first one.

But a year, about a year later, the next spring, my dad, driving a bus for Greyhound, came home late in March and he said, son, I've got a charter tomorrow. And I said, oh, dad, who do you have? He said, I got the Brooklyn Dodgers tomorrow. I'm picking him up at the Tampa airport.

We're going to take him to St. Pete to play the Yankees in exhibition game. You know, why don't you miss school tomorrow? I said, my desk. This is going to be quite the day.

And, you know, the next day we drove to the tarmac of Tampa International Airport, and the Dodgers were the only team to have their own plane. And the. The K.

O'Malley one, which was Walter O'Malley's wife's name, landed at the airport and the plane taxied up near the bus and off came Alston and Reese and Hodges and. And Snyder and the boys of summer. And I think I got a chance to. To be the bad boy and carry the heavy bats and, you know, get patted on the head.

I had one of those great flat tops back then with the butch wax, so the guys wondering how it could be so spiked, but I had my blue jeans on and my new Converse tennis shoes and I got to pick up the, the pine tar rag and getting gooey stuff on my hands for the first time and to put on Campanello's brand new Heart of the Hide Rawlings mitt and just smell that beautiful leather. And you know, back then, baseballs were made out of horsebide, right? So. And then after the horses started to go away, they went to cows, I guess.

But it was smells of baseball. And that first day I, I went to bed that night and started dreaming. And eventually that was my passion.

And you know, for six, seven, eight years after that. The Dodgers loved the job. My dad did.

So every time they came to the west coast, they usually spent about three days and I got a chance to bat boy for my idols. And of course that was a transition between Brooklyn and Los Angeles.

So growing up with my idols and then all of a sudden, 12 years after that first day, getting drafted in the first round out of Michigan State by the Los Angeles.

Bill Donohue: 00:09:05

Now you, you have some history with a guy I met down in Florida. He was retired, but I went to his home. I believe he was in Palm Harbor. Danny Lindweiler. Who folks, you Google his name.

He was a pretty good ball player in his day, wasn't he, Steve?

Steve Garvey: 00:09:21

Oh, absolutely. I think he set a record. He played for the Cardinals, I think about 10, 11 years. Very good outfielder.

He had the first, I think, airless season for over so many put outs and assists. But he was a great innovator.

He would come up with different devices, you know, to help us, whether it was a half bat, you know, to practice bunting on, or whether it was two pieces of wood on a wall at different angles. So when the pitchers threw at was a softwood and it would come out one way or the other, and the pitchers would work on their bunting.

And he was really a creative guy. And coming out of high school, I had been drafted by Minnesota in the third round. And I decided I wanted to play football and baseball in college.

So I got contacted by one of Danny's young disciples, who was our pitching coach at Chamberlain High in Tampa. And he said, coach Litwire, I would like to have you come up to Michigan State and take a look at the program. And we know it's.

We're running out of time. I had about 20 offers for football and baseball and I said, no, I'm tired of the heat here. Let's take a trip up.

So mom and I went up and we were in Jennison field house and Danny was showing us around. And I was so impressed with the quintessential Big Ten campus. You know, the bell tower and the inner drive, big stadium.

And all of a sudden, Duffy Daugherty, the great Michigan State coach at the time, comes around the corner. He. He greets us. And I. I still think to this day, it was already prearranged. And he came up and said, danny, is this the boy from Florida?

And Danny said, yeah, Duffy. And Mr. Daugherty said, well, son, we heard you play football and baseball and would love to have you come up here. And you know what?

And I said, yes, sir, what's that? He said, we've got over 20,000 coeds. You're bound to get a date on Friday night. And Millie Garvey hearing this, and mom was tough.

She was a businesswoman and executive secretary for the CEO of an insurance company. And she looked at him, she said, Mr. Doherty, my son's coming here for an education. If he has time, he'll play. He'll play sports.

And you know what happens when you find out that you said the wrong thing and you got. You got to start talking to the CEO of the family. And he goes, now, Millie, you know, I was just kidding.

And he took her arm, and they walked around, and that pretty much closed the deal.

So I was very blessed to go there and for two years play football and baseball and then sign with the dodgers in the first round of the secondary draft in 68.

Bill Donohue: 00:11:52

Yeah, 68.

Folks look up that draft because the Dodgers picked just some guys by the name of Bill Buckner, Ron say, Tom Pachoric, Joe Ferguson, Bobby Valentine, Jeff Zahn, and Doyle Alexander. That's it. What a draft. That was one of the greatest drafts in major league history, Steve.

Steve Garvey: 00:12:12

Yeah, arguably the greatest. I think there were. Ended up to be seven or eight in that draft that played over eight or nine years in the majors. And the.

of that, two years later, in: 1970

And of course, you know, Billy Russell and Davey Lopes, who, with Ron say, and I made up the greatest infield in history, you know, playing together eight and a half years.

They were great center fielders, and the Dodgers needed interior infielders, and they took those two great athletes and ended up with those guys playing 15, 16 years. So we give the Dodgers all the credit.

Bill Donohue: 00:13:02

you remember that? It was in: 1969

Steve Garvey: 00:13:10

Yep, yep, yep.

First at bat, you know, they bring, you bring up three or four guys from the minor leagues and Valentine Buckner for sure and I were brought up, it was on a Sunday and I came in from Albuquerque and the guys came in from other places and we got the stadium about 10 in the morning and Novi Kawana, the great clubhouse man, came in first and they had heard about this, this kid who was used to be a bat boy by the name of Stevie Garvey, you know, and he said, we were waiting for you. So took my locker down at the end of the row and there was, it was a uniform and, and I'm looking at it, it's got Dodgers on the front. I'm.

Oh my gosh, you know, I've made it to the starting line. And he said, turn the jersey around. And I turned it around, it was number six. You know, no youngster gets anything under 50 or 60.

Bill Donohue: 00:14:00

No, right.

Steve Garvey: 00:14:01

And I said, this is for me? And he said, yeah. He said, you know, we, we know you're part of the family.

And they gave me number six and you know, I was blessed to wear it well for 20 years.

Bill Donohue: 00:14:11

You did.

I was gonna ask you how you, how you've chose number six, Steve, I thought you might have picked 14 or a storied number like that, but they just gave it to you.

Steve Garvey: 00:14:22

Oh, yep, they gave me six and I took it gladly. I put it, I rushed to get the jersey on. So they didn't change their mind, as they say.

But you know, about the, it was the end of the eighth inning, I think, and we were down by three runs. And my dad always said, sit in the front of the bus and sit next to the coach or manager. And I was sitting there and there's two outs.

The pitcher was about to get up and Waldoffson looked at me and he said, you ready, son? I said, gosh, yes sir, yes, sir. Often, Austin, he said, well, get up there, get ahead.

So I grabbed a bat and a helmet and I got to the on deck circle and put a little pintar on. I'm walking up and I'm looking at the left handed pitcher and it was Jack Delora, right? It was a good lefty for the Mets and.

But I was him walking up, I'm looking across and sitting in the visiting dugout with his legs crossed was Gil Hodges. And for a second I'm looking at it and it's like.

And I remember Gil Hodges, my first game playing catch with me, he came out first and he said, son, you want to play cat? So the first player I ever had interaction was with Gil Hodges. And, and of course, he was one of my idols, along with Peewee and Jackie and Roy.

And I thought, oh my gosh. And so I got up, you know, I wasn't nervous. I was ready. And Dolores, a little cutter inside. I turn on it and hit a good shot down line.

Just missed a foul pole by about 10ft and get back in.

Took a little lefty and now he throws a little fader away and I get a piece of it down the right field line and a little bit farther, but just missed the foul ball. So I stepped back and I go, this is too hard. You know, two pitches, almost had two home runs. What's tough about the major leagues?

Yeah, And I got in the batter's box and I'm looking for probably, you know, something up and away. Oh, two. And he winds up and he lets go of that ball and it's as if the air came out of it.

And I, I started to stride and my hands come forward and it was the first screwball I ever saw. And it's fading away and I'm thinking, oh, my Lord, I can't strike out. And I swing and the bat comes out of my hands and goes over.

Was it Wayne Garrett? Wayne Garrett, third baseman and almost javelin in the outfield.

And you know, I'm wide eyed and I strike out and I walk back with kind of a quick taste of the dugout and there's Walt Olson at the top of the, of the steps. And he looks at me. Well, son, it's pretty auspicious start. He broke a record for a Dodger Stadium bathroom fair. And you just missed two home runs.

and ended up with just about: 2600

And that kid, little bad boy at the age of eight, growing up in Florida, was very blessed to play with his childhood team and grow up around his idols and, and still come back to New York and remember the island fondly. And, and my, my grandfather, we used to come up for Thanksgivings. His beat was a couple blocks from Evans Field.

He used to take us over to Evertsfield. He knew guys there and we'd walk in and, and the pigeons were flying around and it was cold.

But I got a chance to see the field where my idols played.

Bill Donohue: 00:17:40

Yeah, well, that's one thing that I regret. Steve is not being old enough to see Evans Field. And that would have been something. Your first hit, by the way.

The Dodgers won that ball game that Steve appeared in. Jack Delaro and the 69 Mets dropped that game to the Dodgers. I believe it was 10, six, but that's a story for another day.

Your first hit is off Denny LeMaster. I had his card as a kid.

Steve Garvey: 00:18:07

Yeah, yeah, really good picture. Yeah, really good picture in the Astrodome and, and I kept, kept that one fair. I think I got a hit in the gap and, and that was the beginning.

I was one for three in September.

ple of trips, prepared us for: 1970

Bill Donohue: 00:18:34

You talk about that infield, Steve, and you guys were together for about almost nine years with Ron say, Bill Russell at short, Ron say at third, Davey Lopes at second. Definitely one of the most enduring in baseball history, the Dodgers. What do you attribute that to? Just the drafting?

Steve Garvey: 00:18:54

Well, yeah, significant scaring, you know, goes back to Branch Rickey and then the O'Malleys and then Alcantaras and, and the passing the torch down to good, good baseball men to, you know, beat the bushes of America looking for talented young men and a certain kind of guy to the Dodgers look for somebody that, you know, I think was. Were good young men from good families, good American families. You know, a lot of us were church going, as they say, and, and who.

Just kids who wanted to play baseball and wanted to play team baseball. And I think that's, that was the key. And you know, that group that signed in 68, I was the first one up in 70.

I won the third base job in spring training along with Bill Buckner. The team wasn't very good. And we started slowly and by the end of April we went down to Spokane and Tommy Lasorda was waiting for us.

And he picked us up at about 11 in the morning and we went to the ballpark and he threw two and a half hours of batting practice. And he said, how they get me out? You know, and that was Tommy.

You know, he, he loved to pitch and teach and they say he, he coached the game and taught us life skills. And of course he was a P.T. barnum of baseball and we all miss him.

But that group of 70, like I said, you know, 10, 11 guys over 10 years in the majors and we won the Pacific Coast.

I think it was the Southern Division by 27 games, played Hawaii in the, in the championships, beat them four straight and, and that was the beginning of, you know, next spring up there for the full time and yes, that's a quick, quick story.

So it's game one and we're in Spokane and I hear this voice, you know, because it was all wooden, you know, stands and so forth, and I'm saying, gosh, they sent Vin Scully up here for, for the first game. This is really neat. You know, they think a lot of us. Yeah. And I'm hearing this voice and boy, that's, boy, it's great to have been doing it.

Well, I hit a two run home run and we win the game. And fellow from the Islanders comes over and says, garvey, I'd like to do an interview with you afterwards. And I said, oh great.

So I go over and I sit down and the man introduced himself and he said, steve, I'm Al Michaels and I'm really impressed with how you play. And that was a great home run.

Like to do interview for the Hawaii Islander fans and, and there was two basic rookies who got a chance to spend the post game together. And now it's a dear friend of mine, of course, he's a Hall of Famer in at least two sports. I know, right.

And it's a journey in life, journey in baseball, journey in sports that has really becomes, and I've always said we're in the memory business and on that way we meet people and we have moments that are indelible. And I think that's why I love the game so much and so many people do that. Those memories, fond, fond memories. The greatest currency we have in life.

Bill Donohue: 00:21:54

Believe in miracles? With the: 1980

Steve Garvey, Al Michaels talking right there. Now you spoke about Tommy Lasorda, Steve. Steve Garvey with us tonight on the program. Illustrious managers you played for, you played for.

Walter Alston, Dick Williams, Tommy Lasorda, all Hall of Famers right there. Who had the greatest impact on your career of some of the managers you played before on the way up.

Steve Garvey: 00:22:31

Well, it's interesting. Tommy was my first manager in Ogden, Utah when I signed 68.

And Guy Wellman, the great Midwest scout who had watched me play Mission State, when he signed me, he said, you know, we can either send you to Daytona beach, but you know, you, you played in Florida, but I think we'll send you to Ogden. We got a great manager of young men there by the name of Lasorda. And, and he said, we're going to send you there.

So the next day I went From Tampa to St. Louis to Salt Lake City, little puddle jumper to Ogden, got a cab, got down to the Ben Lomond Hotel on Main Street.

It was like the Plaza, Plaza Hotel of Ogden. And I walked in, is palm trees, old hotel built in the 20s.

And as I'm getting close to the desk, there's a man and talking and looks like a bunch of guys my age. And he turns around, he comes walking towards me, says, you must be the Garvey kid. I said, yes sir, I am.

He said, well, son, he said, welcome to the Dodgers and your life changed forever. And I thought, oh my gosh, who is this guy?

And, and from that day on, you know, he, we built a, a wonderful relationship, really a father son relationship that carried all the way until his passing a couple of years ago. But he was, I always said he was the P.T. barnum of managing baseball. Walter Olson was the stoic 21 year contract.

But when he, when he talked, you listened because he had been, he'd been watching you. And then of course, Dick Williams is one of a drill sergeant. So three different styles of managing, three different hall of Famers.

And I learned from all of them.

Bill Donohue: 00:24:08

Yeah, as we said folks, three famous hall of Fame managers. Dick Williams of course, with the Impossible Dream and the Oakland A's.

Tommy with the Dodgers and Walter Alston, he was the guy who won the 55 world championship with those Brooklyn bums. Pitchers that you owned, Steve, that you.

Steve Garvey: 00:24:27

Hit well, well, I respected everybody, but some of them hit my bat more than others, obviously. But you know, I went through, you know, you can go online and, and come up with all the pictures you faced.

And I wanted to figure out hall of Famers I faced and I faced probably 14, 15 maybe and ended up with about almost a 270 average. I think it was 268, which is take a lot of pride in because those guys were the very best, right?

And then after that you've got some guys that like you just owned, you know. And you know I always say I love left handed pitching, but obviously 70% of the time right handers throw and 30% lefties.

But you know, I, I was an opposite field guy. I thought about line drives to right and that way I covered the whole field.

And you know, there was a stretch there where six out of seven seasons I hit 200. 200 hits or more so I took a lot of pride in making contact.

And you know, there were those times when, you know, it was, it was the battle between the great pitcher and, and me at the plate. People say, what do you miss much?

I said, it's the competition of doing the single great, toughest thing in sports and that's, that's facing a man 60ft 6 inches away who knows the speed, angle and location and he takes that round bat and tries to put it there and you've got a round ball rather, and you've got to round that, try to hit squarely. So greatest challenge and fortunately, over my long career playing with great players and coaching and like you said, great managers.

I was in five World Series, 10 All Star Games and like I said, very blessed to have a long career.

Bill Donohue: 00:26:17

2700 hits, folks. Not too shabby. Now, which pitchers gave you fit? Steve, you said you faced about 14 hall of Famers.

Who did you walk up there and not want to see out there?

Steve Garvey: 00:26:32

Well, you know, people say who's the type of pitcher? And they, you know, they think I'm going to say Seaver or Marichell or, or Gibson or any of these. And I always say it's Phil Negro, people.

Phil Negro knuckleball fish. I said, yeah, because he didn't know it was going. The catcher didn't know he was going.

And we're supposed to hit it with this round bat and, and he was always tough and you know, knuckleball pitcher always wants the wind blowing out, which hitters love because, you know, ball that's not turning over really dances. So that's why the humidity in Atlanta was perfect for him a little bit better, you know, at Chavez Ravine and Dodger Stadium.

But there were nights where I just get on top of the plate and hope he hit me because I'd consider a hit. But you know, again, I was a contact hitter and couldn't play and I probably batted maybe 250 against him, but I'll take it.

Yeah, but the Seavers were always tough and, and you know, the guys that perennial get to the hall of Fame, even Knights, when they, they always say they didn't have it, their competitiveness is the thing that I like the challenge of it. So. But you know, again, I was, back then we, we did different things in the batter's box. We had closed stances or parallel. Now the stances are open.

We got close to the plate. We didn't have launch angles. You know, we were taught to get down through the ball, you know, Hit line drives with a little backspin.

Previous people come up to me now, say the last 15, 20 years, hey, do you have a launch angle? I said, well, you know, I had to hit a 270 home runs.

I said, but most of the time, and like, you know, it's interesting, I, I learned how to hit and run.

So, so being a fourth place hitter, when you had Billy Russell in front of you or Reggie Smith or somebody like that, the guys we get on, Davey Lopes, the great basket base, Steeler, so the ability hit the ball the other way was, you know, was something that I did pretty well. And I think I'd get eight or nine 10 bun hits a year, which was another, you know, 20 points on the average.

So I learned how to, how to use the bat and put the ball in play. And you know, rough year for me was 60 strikeouts and for a lot of guys now, as you know that in a month, probably the first two months, right?

Bill Donohue: 00:28:54

Yeah.

Steve Garvey: 00:28:55

Oh, you know, I used to take it personally if I struck out and I'd come in and, you know, I'd never threw a bat or anything but just talk under my breath and Losor would say, take it easy, yeah, you'll get them next time. And I said, no, I can't believe I struck out on that.

And so, I mean, that's the competitiveness, you know, we, I had it when I first came up and I think I had it my last season.

And you know, I did, I did color for, you know, not, not one team, but I used to do it for ESPN for the College World Series, the liberal Series and so forth. And I talked about that competitiveness and how important it is and never giving up on and at that, much less, you know, being 0 for 3.

And you know, a lot of guys will say it's not my night. Well, I wanted to get that fourth at bat and get a hit. So I was one for four.

So, you know, you keep adjusting your, your goals and your challenges and I think that's what drives us, you know, both on the field and off the field and in life.

Bill Donohue: 00:29:54

There you go. Steve Garvey, been a pleasure. I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend it with us back home here in Long Island.

We wish you the best. We'll keep in touch with you. Thanks again and best of health to you, Steve.

Steve Garvey: 00:30:10

Absolutely. Best to all the New Yorkers there. My hometown people.

Bill Donohue: 00:30:14

There you go. So that's Steve Garvey, ladies and gentlemen. Up next on Sports Talk New York, we'll Welcome in author of a new book on Don Drysdale, Mr.

Martin Wicker. So stick around, folks.

Mark Wicker: 00:30:38

You are listening to Sports Talk New York.

Steve Garvey: 00:30:41

Tune in every Sunday night at 8pm.

Mark Wicker: 00:30:42

FM and: 12:40

Bill Donohue: 00:31:30

All right, folks, we are back. We're back with Sports Talk New York on wgb, located in beautiful Merrick, Long Island, New York, coming to you live on this Sunday evening.

We are at 16 days and counting until pitchers and catchers report to many of the spring training camps in Florida and Arizona. 30, almost 29 days. It was the last time we spoke, so we are moving along. How we doing, Brian? We're looking good.

career as a sports writer in: 1974

It's from our good friends at Triumph Books in Chicago. The subject of the book is the legendary hall of Famer Don Drysdale. The title up and the Life of a Dodgers Legend.

I welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Mark Wicker. Mark, good evening.

Mark Wicker: 00:32:44

Hi. How are you?

Bill Donohue: 00:32:45

We're doing great. Mark, I just want to start off by asking you a wonderful topic, well deserved bio of Don Drysdale.

How did you decide to write about Drysdale and why now?

Mark Wicker: 00:32:58

it and most of it I wrote in: 2023

And I just felt like there's I felt like he was a symbolic figure in the 60s of the way baseball was played back then. And I thought he was a very essential part of a lot of really good Dodgers teams.

And I think the holdout that he staged with Sandy Koufax did a lot to change the economics of baseball, too. And, you know, there's just a lot of facets to his life and he had a big impact on a lot.

Bill Donohue: 00:33:46

Of people, rightfully so, yes. Now, who did you speak with, Mark, in putting together your research for this book? How many people did you contact?

Some of the names you had to speak with? Because, as we know, Don's been gone for a while. Name us some of the people that you talk to.

Mark Wicker: 00:34:06

Well, fortunately, I was. I interviewed Vince Kelly about this before Ben passed away.

Bill Donohue: 00:34:10

Oh, nice. Okay.

Mark Wicker: 00:34:12

And back when I first started working on it, before it fell through, and then Ann Meyers was a key, obviously his wife. And. And then, you know, Ken Harrelson, who worked with him in the White Sox broadcast booth, was very helpful as well. And a lot of his.

A lot of his old teammates. And, you know, Bill Babaisey, whose father, Buzzy, was the general manager of the dodgers, and Peter O'Malley, who owned the team.

And, you know, just a lot of people around baseball who, you know, Joe Tory, for instance, was very helpful talking about, you know, being in the opposing dugout and just a lot of some family members, too, that are still surviving. And, you know, I think probably. I don't know how many people I interviewed, probably about 50.

And then did a lot of research in the archives, you know, with his games and his actual career.

Bill Donohue: 00:35:05

Yeah. Certainly shows in the book, that is for sure. Mark.

Now, Don Drysdale, he quickly established himself as a pitcher who was, we'll just say, not afraid to come up and in, as in the book's title. Was he.

Mark Wicker: 00:35:21

Yeah, I think he grew up. He had a lot of influences growing up in the Dodger organization. The Dodgers were that way anyway.

They had kind of forged a reputation as a pitching staff who would come inside and really, all of them, every pitcher back then did.

I know that several people say that, you know, when you broke into the big leagues, you were going to get pitched inside and knocked down early just to see what you're made of and to see if you could take it. I think Drysdale, I think the way he pitched and the way he looked and he was. He said he always pitched angry.

And I think that his reputation, plus his size, you know, he was six foot six.

And the fact that he would knock down Frank Robinson, he would knock down Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, I mean, any of the top guys, you know, he was not afraid of doing that. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that he got a big reputation for doing that. He certainly deserved it.

But, you know, Sandy Kopak's fits inside, too. And really a lot of people did back in that time. That was just the ethic of the.

Bill Donohue: 00:36:27

Game, as you Say it was the thing to do back in that day. And one of the mentors of Don Drysdale, I read, Mark, was Sal Magley. People can Google Sal Magley. His nickname was the Barber.

And it wasn't because he gave haircuts. It's because of the close shave he gave batters in the batter's box. And he was one of the guys who helped Don through the early part of his career.

Now, Don Drysdale sort of played in the shadow of Sandy Koufax. Mark, how did he deal with that?

Mark Wicker: 00:37:02

Well, they were good friends, and I think. I don't think he minded it at all. I mean, he was, you know, he knew that how great Sandy was, you know, once Sandy overcame his.

His control problems early in his career.

well. And then, of course, in: 1968

out during spring training in: 1966

And they were asking for a colossal amount of money back then. You know, I think. I think they ended up getting 125 and $110,000 out of it that year.

But that was, you know, that was a lot of money back then for baseball. The reserve clause was still in effect, and, you know, players couldn't become free agents, so they were threatening to become actors.

And I think when.

When the Dodgers finally signed them, Buzzy Buvasi said, you know, Hollywood really owes me a debt of gratitude because you don't want those two guys on the screen. They're acting back 20 years. And Sandy was extremely relieved when he didn't have to be in a movie. But they were friends.

They were good friends long into their retirement. And, you know, and I think, you know, it's one of the few things, you know, Sandy doesn't do many interviews. And.

And I did get a few minutes with him because of the subject matter, because of Don Drysdale.

Bill Donohue: 00:38:46

Nice. Yes. I also read, Mark, that Drysdale went to high school with Robert Redford. There's a side note for you folks, a little nugget.

Van Nuys High School it was. And going to school with Robert Redford and Don Drysdale, a nice experience. He Was also a great header. Mark 65.

As a matter of fact, he was the Dodgers only.300 hitter one year.

Mark Wicker: 00:39:12

He was. That's true. And he had a lot of home runs. He had a lot of triples. I mean, I think he was. It was kind of amazing. He never.

And that's one reason he was able to win a lot of games, because they very rarely pitch it for him. In fact, he pitch it sometimes for other Dodgers, which is, when you look back on it, it's hard to believe, but he was a very good hitter.

He was very proud, very dangerous. And. And that's one of the things he was good at. He had a great pickup move, too. And, you know, he was very well schooled in all the little things.

Bill Donohue: 00:39:45

We're speaking with Mark Rickard tonight on Sports Talk New York. He's got a new book coming out on February 18th on the Great hall of Famer, Don Drysdale.

Now, one of the great stories, Mark, and you can tell it for us, centers around Sandy Koufax declining to pitch in the World Series because it fell on Yom Kippur. Tell us that story. Did we lose, Mark? Mark, you with us? We did. Okay, we'll give Mark a call back. Let me. Hold on a second, folks. I lost. Oh, here we go.

Thank you for holding. We just have to get Mark back on the line. What I was talking about was a story about Drysdale and Koufax.

The World Series game fell on Yom Kippur, which, as we know, is the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. And Koufax didn't pitch true to his religion, and instead Don Drysdale took that ball game. Is do we have Mark back on the phone? We got him. All right.

Sorry about that, Mark. I don't know what happened, friend, but glad to have you back with us.

Mark Wicker: 00:41:13

Sure. What happened there? I'm sorry.

Bill Donohue: 00:41:14

ax during the World Series in: 1965

Of course. We know the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. Tell us that story.

Mark Wicker: 00:41:32

Yeah, he was: 1965

And the Twins really lit Drysdale up that day. And Walter Austin went to the mound to take him out of the game. And he expected Drysdale to be angry, as he always was in those situations.

And instead Drysdale was laughing and he said, hey, I bet you wish I was Jewish. Yeah.

Bill Donohue: 00:41:59

But the Dodgers did go on to win that series. And the Koufax, Sandy Koufax was, Of course, the MVP, and Drysdale won Game 4 at Dodger Stadium. But just a classic story about those two guys there.

e famous holdout mark. It was: 1966

I think, as you said, they were looking for a half a million dollars over three seasons. Each of them wanted that. Buzzy Bavasi said, no. They ended up with 110,000, or Drysdale had 110,000. Koufax ended up with 125,000.

They became the first pitchers to earn more than $100,000.

Mark Wicker: 00:42:49

Yeah, that was, you know, and I think a lot of it kind of accelerated the realization among players that, you know, there was a lot of money out there, a lot more money than they were making. Of course, like I said, the reserve clause was lifted a few years later thanks to some court action, and they really hit it big after that.

But yeah, that was, I think Ginger drive. Don's wife at the time was the one that she guess that they worked together and they hired an agent, which was also very unusual at that time.

He was a guy named J. William Hayes, who was a show business agent. And they really put the Dodger's feet to the fire for about a month and a half there.

And they weren't in spring training. And everybody in baseball was chattering about this and what were the Dodgers going to do?

And I think, you know, Carl Osteen was the third starter on that team. And I think he said playing with those two guys would be like, you know, trying to have a car without a steering wheel.

I mean, unthinkable that they were going to go into the ceiling without those two.

And at the end, the Vezi, who was closer to Don than he was to Sandy, ended up eating dinner with him or eating lunch with him in a restaurant near the stadium in la. And they, they made the deal pretty quickly, I mean, without much of a. Without much ado once it got to that point and right before the season.

And what happened was Andy started pitching like he hadn't. He didn't need spring training. He was having another great year. Don really did need spring training, and he struggled.

And he took a real licking from the media and fans for a long time in that season because he really wasn't performing.

And everybody said, you know, he was riding on Sandy's coattails and that he was, you know, that he didn't have any right to think of himself in the same class as Koufax. And then near the end of the season, he had a very good month and a half or so, and they ended up winning the National League Senate again.

But it was quite a year in a lot of respects for the Dodgers. It was the end of that run that they had. They weren't. They kind of went into the doldrums a little bit after that.

But that was the type of thing where L. A was just having a nervous breakdown, wondering if these two guys were going to fit.

Bill Donohue: 00:45:11

Exactly. That is true.

Now, another great fact, Mark, about Don Drysdale was the record that he set was a record at the time, 58 and 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings, which was then broken by Oral Hershiser later on. The thing about Don Drysdale's performance was, though, he had six consecutive complete game shutouts which Orel could not match.

That was some tremendous streak.

Mark Wicker: 00:45:43

When you look at the pitchers that he faced too. I mean, he had one of them against Bob Gibson, he had Another against Mike McCormick, he had another against Larry Durker.

You know, he was pitching against some of the best pitchers in the National League. And, you know, he had to go nine innings. He couldn't give up any runs. You know how easy it is to give up a run on a wild pitcher.

Error, fastball, none of that ever happened. Most of the games were very close. He actually had a hand in winning a couple of those games as a hitter. And it was. It was an amazing streak.

I mean, he broke Walter Johnson's record. I mean, that's how long it had lasted. And, you know, it went. It went 58, 2 3rd. And he was. He was exhausted at the end of it.

ut. And then Oral broke it in: 1988

And Don was in the dugout as a broadcaster when Oral did break it. And Oral, you know, Don was all for Oral breaking and he wasn't possessive about the record at all. He said it made.

He said he was glad that Oral kept it in the family.

Bill Donohue: 00:46:54

Right. He was most gracious about Oral Hershiser taking over the reigns of that record. He definitely was a class act. Don Drysdale.

Now, as you said, recurring shoulder injuries slowed Don down in his final years. He had a torn rotator cuff. He retired after the or during the 69 season.

At the time of his retirement, he was the last active player on the Dodgers who played for them in Brooklyn.

Mark Wicker: 00:47:26

Right, exactly. And he, you know, most of the Dodgers didn't want to leave Brooklyn because they were part of the community there. You know, they knew that.

They knew the Wall. Andrew Mad. They knew the guy at the Queens, they knew the guy at the restaurants. They knew the guy who fixed their cars.

They, you know, they all lived around Brooklyn and in Brooklyn and now they're moving to LA and they're living 30 miles away from the ballpark. And nobody knew where to go, nobody knew what to do. Don, even being from Southern California, did not want to leave.

w, when they started there in: 1958

d his first pitching there in: 1956

And so he was very much a Dodger, you know, I mean, he, it wouldn't have, even if he had had a chance, I don't think he would have ever occurred to him to pitch someplace else. Even though he and Buzzy had their disputes about things over the years.

Bill Donohue: 00:48:57

Right now Mark Wicker is with us tonight talking about his book about the great Don Drysdale. Now, as we spoke about earlier, Mark, Sal Magley, who himself is known for brush back, taught Drysdale sort of how to pitch aggressively.

We'll say with both were teammates back with the Dodgers, he led the National League, did Drysdale in hit hit batsman for four straight seasons. That's got to tell you something right there.

Mark Wicker: 00:49:30

Well, he was, the years that he pitched in the Coliseum, he really hated it because there's a girl fence, all right, and he, and he, he just, it just drove him crazy. He would, he would, you know, somebody would have a fly ball, it would go out and he was, he was young and you know, a Little bit.

A little bit explosive, personally. And he would, he just hated. He hated pitching there. And he would tell everybody he knew that he hated pitching there.

And those were the years that he really drilled a lot of guys because he was just bad anyway. And once they moved to Dodger Stadium, which was a totally different place to pitch, his.

His hit batsman total went down because he was a little bit more at peace with himself pitching there. But. And the numbers actually show that he didn't pitch much worse in the Coliseum than he did on the road.

So it was kind of in his head, but he, you know, he was. The way he pitched. I mean, he came from around third base. If you were a right handed hitter, the ball looked like it was coming right for your ear.

And you know, he had a. And on top of that, he liked to load it up, too. He had a pretty good grease ball going. And so.

But, you know, I think more than anything it was, you know, this whole attitude about, you know, the Dodgers had back when he broke in, you know, it was, you know, if you hit one of our guys, we're going to hit two of your guys.

Steve Garvey: 00:50:52

Right.

Mark Wicker: 00:50:53

And, you know, and Don's thing was, you know, you know, each one of us has a piece of the plate, but I'm going to make sure I've got my piece of the plate and you're not going to know which one it is, you know, so. Right. He definitely put hitters in their place.

But I think those figures about the head batsman were kind of exacerbated by the fact that he was miserable in the Coliseum and he was ecstatic when they moved to Dowderstadium.

Bill Donohue: 00:51:21

Great point, Mark. Great point.

Mark Wicker: 00:51:22

Yes.

Bill Donohue: 00:51:23

And he certainly fit the mold as one of the sportscasters here in New York calls him, the Hollywood Dodgers. We know Don from appearances with Donna Reed, with Jerry Mathers on Leave it to Beaver, the classic phone call into the Dodger locker room.

The Brady Bunch. He seemed to enjoy getting in and rubbing elbows with the Hollywood elite.

Mark Wicker: 00:51:51

Yeah, he and Frank Sinatra were good friends, you know, and he knew every. He's one of those people who just knew everybody. Everybody knew him. He and Robert F. Kennedy were very close.

In fact, in: 1968

In that speech that everybody remembers at the Americana Hotel right before RFK was shot, he started out the speech by saying, you know, it's a great night for us, and it's also a great night for Don Drysdale, he puts another shut out tonight in Badger Stadium. And, and you know, he and Ginger both worked for, you know, they both worked on Kennedy's campaigns.

And so, you know, he was just one of those guys that people gravitated to and he made people feel good. You know, he was just a fun guy to be with. And I think, you know, and that spilled over into his TV acting career. When he held out, he was going to.

There was going to be a TV show called the Iron Horse with Dale Robertson.

Bill Donohue: 00:52:58

Oh, I remember that one, Mark.

Mark Wicker: 00:52:59

Yeah, I remember at a part in that. And you know, he, he was in some westerns and stuff and he always kind of played that, that stranger. He wasn't.

He played the bad guy a couple times too.

But he was, you know, back then, you know, especially, you know, the, the Dodgers proximity to Hollywood, you know, the people on TV and the people in the films just fell over for the Dodgers.

They loved having all those guys on and it was a great opportunity for them because like I said, they weren't making a lot of money from the team back then. So that was a good way for.

Bill Donohue: 00:53:36

Them to make a little money, supplement the income. I mean, you can't beat Mr. Ed hitting off Sandy Koufax, Mark.

Mark Wicker: 00:53:43

You know, you still see that. You know, you can't go on the Internet without seeing that every couple.

Bill Donohue: 00:53:50

That is great. Now how do you feel, Mark?

And what does the answer of that Don Drysdale maybe doesn't warrant Cooperstown, that you have other pitchers that are more deserving than Don Drysdale. There are people of that, that opinion. What do you say to them?

Mark Wicker: 00:54:08

Well, I think what they're looking, they're looking at 209 wins. And there's a lot of pitchers back then who had a lot more.

When you look at all of his supplemental numbers, the close games that he lost, remember, the Dodgers were not an offensive juggernaut when he pitched back then. And they had a very small ball attack and they didn't score a lot of runs.

When you look at shutouts, innings, when you look at whip, when you look at era, some of the dominant seasons that he had, I think he does deserve to be there, along with the fact that he was on winning teams.

And you know, I think a lot of times in the hall of Fame, we kind of dwell on the numbers and we don't dwell on the impact and what a, what an impact a player might have had. You know, Drysdale was a star. You know, he sold tickets.

He was a guy that, that was a symbol of the way of the ethic that he played baseball with back then. He was also, you know, he was super aggressive and he sort of epitomized what Los Angeles was going through back then.

Los angeles in the 60s really blossomed into a great international city. And he was part of all that. He was. And I think that with all that, I still don't.

I don't think he would have gotten in the hall of Fame or at least I think it would have been difficult had he not had the shutout streak. I think that was his claim to fame. Everybody's got to have one distinguishing thing that they did.

he had that shutout streak at: 1968

And back then, too, you know, whenever he would go in, whenever he would be eligible, you know, he was fighting a lot of great, great players who became eligible too, during that time. And back then, the baseball Tigers weren't really prone to. Like, the other day, they voted three people into the hall of Fame.

That didn't happen very often back then. They would usually vote one or two, and they would really have to be superstars to get in. So, you know, I think he does deserve it.

I think he, you know, just because of the impact he had on the game and as consistent as he was from start to start, I think the other thing, too, back then, wins were considered a lot more important than they are now. People don't really look at wins now. They look at the other secondary statistics.

So I think if he had that same resume right now, I think he would have probably gotten in a little.

Bill Donohue: 00:56:35

Easier, understood a larger than life Persona and a legendary guy. Well, Mark, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for taking time out of your Sunday to spend it with us again, folks.

The book is from our buddies out in Chicago, Triumph Books. It drops on February 18th. It's called up and in the Life of a Dodgers Legend. About Don Drysdale, Double D.

Thanks again, Mark, and all the best with the book.

Mark Wicker: 00:57:03

Appreciate it. Thank you very much, Will. Good luck.

Bill Donohue: 00:57:05

That is Mark Wicker, ladies and gentlemen. That will do it for me tonight on Sports Talk New York.

I'd like to thank my guests Steve Garvey and Mark Wicker, my engineer, Brian Graves, and of course, you guys for joining us. See you Next on Sunday, February 9th. We'll be back with more great sports talk. Till then, be safe, be well.

Bill Donahue, wishing you a good evening, folks.

Mark Wicker: 00:57:31

The views expressed in the previous program did not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgbb.