Episode 299
Mike Vaccaro Joins: Yankees Legacy, Mets Struggles, and NFL Draft Talk
Hosted by Mike Guidone and Chris Caputo, they discuss a mix of Knicks talk, Mets struggles, NFL Draft reactions, and more from around the sports world. They’re joined by sportswriter Mike Vaccaro, who shares insight on New York sports and his latest book, Bosses of the Bronx: The Endless Drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinbrenner.
Later, they dive into the differences between George and Hal Steinbrenner, what that means for the Yankees over time, and how it compares to what’s going on with the Mets right now. It’s a mix of history, current storylines, and honest takes on where things stand.
Show Takeaways:
- In the latest episode, we engaged in a profound discussion about the contrasting leadership styles of George and Hal Steinbrenner, emphasizing how these differences have shaped the Yankees' current organizational culture.
- Mike Vaccaro provided invaluable insights into his book, 'Bosses of the Bronx', detailing the tumultuous history of the Yankees under George Steinbrenner's ownership.
- The hosts delved deeply into the current state of the Knicks, analyzing their playoff performance and the necessity for consistent execution in critical moments to advance further in the postseason.
- Amidst the dialogue on the Mets, we highlighted the alarming statistics reflecting their struggles, particularly in offensive production, which has led to a dismal start to the season.
- The conversation encompassed the recent NFL draft, examining the strategic decisions made by local teams and their implications for the upcoming season.
- In reflecting on the Mets' current woes, we discussed possible managerial changes and the need for a reassessment of team strategies to regain competitive footing in the league.
Transcript
The views expressed in the following program do not necessarily represent those of the.
Speaker B:Staff, management or owners of wgbb.
Speaker B:Live from the WGBB studios in Merrick, New York, this is Sports Talk New York.
Speaker A: FM: Speaker A: -: Speaker A:If you want to join in again.
Speaker A: -: Speaker A:Have a huge dose of Knicks talking.
Speaker A:A little Mets, NFL draft will be sprinkled in there.
Speaker A:But we will be very happy to be joined in just a moment by Mike Vaccaro, veteran New York author and New York Post writer.
Speaker A:He'll be talking about his new book, bosses of the Bronx, the Endless Drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinbrenner.
Speaker A:But before we get to that, I'd like to welcome in again my friend, my cohort, my co host, Cappy, Chris Capito.
Speaker A:Cap, how you doing tonight?
Speaker B:I'm doing great, Mike.
Speaker B:Glad we're back in the studios.
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:And we got a lot to talk about, but very excited to bring on Mike Piccaro, the author of the book, as I mentioned before, Bosses of the Bronx, the Endless Drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinberg.
Speaker A:Mike, welcome aboard.
Speaker A:Mike and Chris here on Long Island.
Speaker B:How you doing, guys?
Speaker C:How are you guys doing tonight?
Speaker B:We're doing great.
Speaker A:You know, we're very happy to have you on.
Speaker A:It's a great time of year and you have a wonderful book out about.
Speaker B:The New York Yankees.
Speaker A:So again, as baseball is kind of getting into full swing here, nothing better than talking about the Yankees in your book.
Speaker A:So if you could just fill us in, tell us, you know, you've been writing about New York sports for a very long time, how this book came about at this point and, and where.
Speaker C:It's going from here.
Speaker C:I was like, I wouldn't mind.
Speaker C:You know, guys, I, I hear from a lot of fans, and I don't think a lot of them remember what George was like when he was really George.
Speaker C:You know, they were, they were, they weren't old enough to remember that a lot of their old, their older brothers and their fathers, they don't remember it either because they choose not to because what they remember is, is the George that would walk in the Yankee Stadium as an older man and be celebrated and cheered.
Speaker C:And of course, 10 years later, he'd walk into the stadium, be a lot of loud noises too, for a different reason.
Speaker C:And this one kind of just.
Speaker C:There's a lot of stories to tell about that, about him.
Speaker C:A very interesting life.
Speaker C:No doubt a lot of different facets to that life and certainly where they're being preserved between the pages of the covers of a book.
Speaker B:Mike, if people are reading a book, you know, they're looking at the George days versus now, the Hal days.
Speaker B:Can you talk a little bit about the difference between the two?
Speaker C:Well, they're night and day.
Speaker C:You know, George was over the top.
Speaker C:He was impatient, he was flamboyant, whatever the opposite words for all of those descriptions are.
Speaker C:That's Hal.
Speaker C:He's very patient, he's very careful.
Speaker C:You're not going to see him on the back page a lot, certainly not by his own choice.
Speaker C:And that's really where Hal is now.
Speaker C:And I think sometimes that's to the frustration of Yankees fans.
Speaker C:But Honestly, George went 18 years, one time without winning the World Series because he was too impetuous, he was too impatient, he was always firing managers, he was always getting rid of players.
Speaker C:And Hal is the exact opposite.
Speaker C: haven't won a champion since: Speaker C:But the Yankees are there every year and I think hell's got is a big business for them.
Speaker A: inbrenner buys the Yankees in: Speaker A:Was there any indication at that point what type of owner he was going to be?
Speaker A:And did he kind of have any or did the fans or anybody have any kind of inkling of what kind of hands on, demanding boss he was going to be?
Speaker C:You know, it's funny, when he, on the first day he had, you know, in the team, he said he was absentee ownership and you know, they were getting stick to building ships, they weren't going anything to know what to do.
Speaker C:I meant baseball, of course, you know, as he said it, he knew he didn't mean it.
Speaker C:And he admitted that to me many years later.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, what he saw with the team was an opportunity to take advantage of an incredible history, an incredible tradition and New York City and you know, the most important brand, baseball and sports.
Speaker C:One of the more notable brands in the world really on the streets of Beijing and you're going to see people wearing Yankees out.
Speaker C:And really what he bought, what he was buying when he bought the Yankees was this worldwide brand and this important brand and that's what he helped build over the course of his 37 years of ownership.
Speaker B:We're talking with New York Post columnist and author Mike Vaccario about the book the Bosses of the Bronx.
Speaker B:Mike, you know, George Steinbrenner had kind of like that fan side to him that maybe overruled some of his rational side.
Speaker B:Was there something that you couldn't leave out of this book that you had to tell that maybe was a little bit over the top?
Speaker C:I think almost all the over the top stories are in there, guys, and there were a lot of them.
Speaker C:You know, one of the things about covering George is that, you know, you cover certain teams and you think, oh, my God, that's the biggest meltdown in team history.
Speaker C:And, you know, around the Yankees in the Sanbridger years, that was considered Tuesday as usual.
Speaker C:But you're right, there was definitely a duality to George.
Speaker C:I mean, there was the George timebritter who was ahead of his time in terms of building infrastructure, in terms of running for money behind his farm system, investing in scouts, the very best scouts, and that was important.
Speaker C:But he kind of shared the ownership to George Stambron, who.
Speaker C:Ever impetuous, ever impatient, never willing to do just, you know, crazy things.
Speaker C:You know, hiring Billy Martin five times is a crazy thing.
Speaker C:You know, the cautery of young players that he traded in the 80s.
Speaker C:It's a crazy thing.
Speaker C:And that's, you know, that version of Steinbrenner almost always got the better of the smart versions.
Speaker A:Was it always understood, Mike, that that both would take over, or was there ever a question that once George was gone that he might go in a different direction, or was it always understood that it was going to stay within this time of their family?
Speaker C:Well, he was always going to keep him the same, you know, over the course of time, because certainly Hal, who he.
Speaker C:Well, George really kind of figured from an early age was going to be the guy that would take over.
Speaker C:You know, he wasn't.
Speaker C:He wasn't old enough, experienced enough.
Speaker C:So over the course of time, he had a couple of son in laws, Steve Schindall and Joe Malloy.
Speaker C:Of course, they made the career suicide decision of divorcing the Simon sisters.
Speaker C:So they were out of the picture after a while.
Speaker C:But it was always going to be how even Hank.
Speaker C:Look, I mean, Hank was very much like his father.
Speaker C: when George was suspended in: Speaker C:It just wasn't for him.
Speaker C:You know, he spent a lot of time enjoying the perks of being the guy people Called because he was always fast in the quote, always faster than the community.
Speaker C:But even he retired to that fairly quickly.
Speaker C:Hal was always the guy.
Speaker C:Hal was always going to be the guy.
Speaker C:And, you know, George saw that from an early age in Hal.
Speaker C:He realized that this is a guy who's very different from him in personality and approach, and he always thought that was probably for the best.
Speaker B:Mike, from idea to final writing of the book, how long did it take you to write this book?
Speaker C:Just about two years.
Speaker C:I mean, the research took about a full year, and the writing took a little, you know, include that in there.
Speaker C:And then the rewriting and the editing and the, you know, trimming it from, you know, into, into a manageable length take about another six months.
Speaker C:So it was about two years from, from start to finish.
Speaker A:In those two years.
Speaker A:Mike, you know, obviously, I'm sure you, you interviewed so many people about this book.
Speaker A:Was, was there any former player of the Yankees or former executive coach, what have you, that.
Speaker A:That kind of surprised you with, with what they talked about in terms of the Steinbrenner family, or was it pretty much down the line that you expected?
Speaker C:The way I decided to do this was I was able to do a lot of the primary reporting of my own just because of my day job.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I covered the Yankees almost 30 years now.
Speaker C:And so I said, so I had those relationships.
Speaker C:I had a relationship with George himself.
Speaker C:I've had a relationship with Hal for many years.
Speaker C:But look, when you want to go back to the older, older stories, you know, which is before my time when I was a kid, I obviously wasn't around for those.
Speaker C:But, you know, through research and through, you know, a lot of just the legwork and reporting, you're able to kind of unearth sort of the stories behind a lot of the stories people have heard about.
Speaker C:But when I would talk to some of the principals, like I, I told us from the beginning, you know, I'm just going to give you, I'm going to talk to you on background.
Speaker C:I don't necessarily need fresh quotes for you about things that happened 35 years ago economically.
Speaker C:But, you know, the way I've described it is that most people, their memory isn't as good now as it was 35 years ago.
Speaker C:It just wasn't.
Speaker C:And so, you know, for a lot of the guys, I just said, look, just, just, just keep me in the right direction.
Speaker C:If, if I'm wandering off scripture because something you say you could fundamentally say did not happen, it's a way that I wrote it, and I Didn't get any of that.
Speaker C:And that's, you know, that was the important thing to me was telling these stories and telling them right.
Speaker C:And you know, allowing these guys to talk to me on background, I think really, you know, allowed them to make sure the story was told properly and without too many errors.
Speaker C:I don't think there are any, but I'm pretty comfortable with everything that's in that book.
Speaker B:But I think, Mike, it also shows the respect that the players, both former and present, have for you being a part of this organization.
Speaker B:They gave you everything you needed.
Speaker C:And also the respect they have for George.
Speaker C:Look, George is a very loyal guy.
Speaker C:A lot of these guys, after they were done work for George, you know, whether spring training instructors or, you know, secondary tertiary rules in the organization.
Speaker C:And you know, George was good to a lot of these guys.
Speaker C:Not all of them.
Speaker C:There's some of these guys, you know, a lot of the guys that he wound up warring with on the back page, you know, he wound up being their employer later on because he really wanted to take care of them.
Speaker B:Do you think that people remember George more for ripping people and the behind the scenes crazy stuff or for the way that they could just walk into his office and have a conversation about what they need?
Speaker C:I don't think they remember the crazy stuff all that much, to be honest with you.
Speaker C:It's part of the reason why I wrote the book.
Speaker C:You know, I think a lot of people forgot just how over the top he was for a lot of his tenure.
Speaker C:I think they tend to remember the latter day Georgia.
Speaker C:Why wouldn't you?
Speaker C:Because that's when the Yankees started to win again.
Speaker C:That's what people want to, want to embrace.
Speaker C:And that's why you hear all the time now when the Yankees go on a five game losing streak, you know, what would George do if he's still alive?
Speaker C:You know, maybe he fire everybody, maybe trade everybody.
Speaker C:But I don't necessarily think that'll be the, the best path because there's, there's this, there's this mythology built around him that if he would snap his fingers, fire some people and trade some people and they win the World Series.
Speaker C:Well, that never happened.
Speaker C:It never happened.
Speaker C:And in fact the Yankees can become the Yankees again until after he was suspended.
Speaker C:Michael was able to the organization without interference from an impetuous owner.
Speaker C:And that's part of the record.
Speaker C:And look, the first time they built a champion in the 70s was the same thing.
Speaker C:Georgia suspended.
Speaker C:And Kate Paul was getting free reign to build those Yankees too.
Speaker C:I'm not taking any great George, who was always the big boss, who was always signing the checks.
Speaker C:But the record shows that the Yankees were held on when he wasn't a daily part of the operation.
Speaker A:Once again we're speaking with Mike Vocaro, the author of Bosses of the Bronx, the endless drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinbrenner.
Speaker A:And Mike, as you were speaking before, and saying about how loyalty was so big with George and within the family and how so many former players and people just wound up being employed by George and the team itself.
Speaker A:Correct me if I'm wrong, you wrote this book in a style of telling lots of stories that any baseball fan or any sports fan could really understand and follow as opposed to just someone who is a diehead Yankee fan.
Speaker C:I want to be part of it.
Speaker C:I think that Yankees fans look at George, they look at him as a guy who cared so much about winning that he was willing to do anything.
Speaker C:I think when they look at hell, sometimes they look at his lacking those essential elements.
Speaker C:But you know, I mean, look, I mean, George was a colorful guy.
Speaker C:He was an over the top interesting guy.
Speaker C:Hal isn't quite so interesting.
Speaker C:I mean, you know, if you're going to write a book about how it's probably going to, going to be what this book is, which is about 40 pages worth of a 340 page book.
Speaker C:Yeah, but you know, look, I mean I, I think the fact of the matter is that, you know, the Yankees became the Yankees again because of George.
Speaker C:I mean because of his belief the Yankees could rise for me ashes in the early 70s and they did.
Speaker C:And for the rest of his time as a Yankee boner, you know, they matter.
Speaker C:They were important.
Speaker C:They didn't always win, you know, they didn't win champions every year, but they were always a thing people cared about, wanted to talk about and they were always fodder for the back pages of the newspapers.
Speaker B:Mike, who was the best interview that you had for the book that you got something out of that maybe didn't expect?
Speaker C:Again, I talked to House a long time.
Speaker C:Look, he's very, he's very honest about his father, he feels like about his own, you know, background.
Speaker C:And he was very honest about where the Yankees are, you know, who they want to be, and was very adamant about how much he cares about winning and as much as Foster does.
Speaker C:I know it's not necessarily the way a lot of Yankees fans look at it, but it's absolutely the truth.
Speaker C:I mean, he burned things every bit as much as his old man.
Speaker C:Did.
Speaker B:Seems like the books are doing well that you had another set that were printed, correct.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's done pretty well.
Speaker C:I mean, it's been received very well.
Speaker C:Like the book.
Speaker C:I mean, look, I had a lot of fun.
Speaker C:People had a lot of fun reading it and it's done pretty well.
Speaker C:I'm very pleased about that, very proud about that, and I'm happy, you know, people.
Speaker C:There's been a lot of good word of mouth, so I think people are passing the book around a little bit too.
Speaker C:So it's been good.
Speaker A:That's great to hear.
Speaker A:Is, Mike, is St. John's basketball another passion of yours besides the Yankees?
Speaker C:Yeah, I've been a St. John's fan since I was 12 years old, so, yeah, it's great to see them where they are.
Speaker C:It's great to cover them relevant again.
Speaker C:You know, St. John is a funny kind of team.
Speaker C:You know, you either cover them a lot or you ignore them because, I mean, if they're not doing well, they're kind of relevant to the New York landscape.
Speaker C:It's always better when they have.
Speaker C:When there's a reason to cover them.
Speaker A:Oh, without a doubt.
Speaker A:Do you feel, you know, obviously you've seen college basketball in all its forms, do you feel that it can continue as currently constituted with nil out of control, or is it something that's eventually going to have to be reined in?
Speaker C:I think it's got to be reigned in eventually.
Speaker C:I just don't see how this can keep growing the way it is.
Speaker C:You know, where we're now, you know, players are regularly getting six and seven million dollars a year.
Speaker C:Where's that money come from?
Speaker C:And how often are people, how long are people going to willing to support that?
Speaker C:You know, it's a year to year thing.
Speaker C:Maybe the bigger schools will always be able to do that.
Speaker C:I don't know, but I just, I think it needs to be reined in.
Speaker C:Look, I'm also not somebody who's going to tell somebody that there should be a cap on how much they're willing to.
Speaker C:They're able to make.
Speaker C:So people are willing to pay these kids six, seven, eight million dollars, then God bless again.
Speaker B:We're talking with Mike Vacaura from the New York Post.
Speaker B:Mike, you have a Long island background.
Speaker B:We're here on Long Island.
Speaker B:How did you kind of go from West Hempstead Chaminade High School to where you are now?
Speaker B:What was the path?
Speaker C:Yeah, I knew I always wanted to write.
Speaker C:I knew I always wanted to cover sports and I went to Saint Bonaventure University to pursue that.
Speaker C:Had a lot of opportunities there.
Speaker C:And look, I mean, I probably graduated from school with a little bit of ability, a little bit of ambition, and then you have to just get your foot in the door and hope that the dice rolls properly for you.
Speaker C:That's really what happened for me.
Speaker C:I mean, I just was.
Speaker C:I was officiating a lot of, you know, fortunate breaks, a lot of fortunate opportunities, and, you know, one thing led to another and here I am at the Post, which is the job I really always wanted to be because I was always a Post sports section reader and just kind of dreamed about working here someday.
Speaker C:And that's what happened.
Speaker C:That made me feel that.
Speaker C:I think about it.
Speaker C:I kind of think about it too much because I figured it made me all go away if I think about it too much.
Speaker A:Obviously, media has changed so much, you know, since you started to now.
Speaker A:And we could spend an hour alone just on Twitter and sports media and social media in its own.
Speaker A:What would you.
Speaker A:I mean, this is kind of a, kind of a standard question, but if you had a youngster who is looking to get into, you know, sports writing.
Speaker A:Both Chris and I are educators.
Speaker A:Teach high school.
Speaker A:What's the first thing or what would you say?
Speaker A:Where do you start now with your interest and your desire to be a journalist?
Speaker A:Journalist within sports.
Speaker C:Read everything you can, and I mean everything.
Speaker C:Read the newspaper, read the magazines, read everything you can online.
Speaker C:Read books, you know, until you're, until your eyes burn.
Speaker C:Good writing is a product of reading well and, you know, writing is a muscle and so is, you know, the fundamentals of writing is reading and having an understanding of the written words.
Speaker C:And as long as you can write cogently and as long as you can write declarative sentences properly better than anybody else, you're going to do okay.
Speaker C:And that's an important fundamental.
Speaker C:And I hear that kids all the time when I talk to them.
Speaker A:Is there one author, sports related or not, who kind of inspired you?
Speaker C:Jeff, Nancy was a really.
Speaker C:Obviously his work is fictional, but he was also a very generous guy among young writers.
Speaker C:I became friends with him, but even before we were friends, he was really a guy who willing to spend time with me and encouraged me.
Speaker C:And Al wasn't the only one.
Speaker C:He did that to a generation of young writers and a lot of us who write books now, you'll see a lot of John Feinstein in our acknowledgments because he meant that much to us.
Speaker B:Yeah, great writer.
Speaker B:Loved always reading all of his college Basketball stuff, things like that.
Speaker B:If you were to describe in one word Hal, and one word George, what word would you use for them?
Speaker C:I'm sorry, you cut out there.
Speaker B:One word to describe George and one word to describe Hal, what would it be?
Speaker C:George is demanding.
Speaker C:Demanding almost to a fault.
Speaker C:Hal is patient.
Speaker C:Look, I mean, and I think that's, people think that's a fault.
Speaker C:I think it's actually one of his greatest, greatest strengths is his ability to keep things in perspective and understand that, you know, the Yankees are going to be fine, and the Yankees are fine.
Speaker C:Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce the right way in the post season.
Speaker C:It's just the reality of it.
Speaker C:Look, the Dodgers are supposed to be an unfathomable team and they should have lost the World Series three different times last year.
Speaker C:That's the way baseball is, you know,.
Speaker B:Sticking with the same general manager and even the manager for a long period of time kind of goes along with that patience word.
Speaker B:You know, what's it been like to, to for the last, let's say 15 years or so, watch this Yankee team because a lot of people this year thought they should make wholesale changes and they kind of so called, quote unquote, ran it back.
Speaker B:You know, what's it been like to seek the consistency amongst the Yankees?
Speaker C:Look, I think it's smart.
Speaker C:They win 94, 95 games every year.
Speaker C:You know, ask your Met fan friends how they, how easy that is to do, you know, and if they would sign up for that.
Speaker C:I mean it's not, I don't like when people call Yankees being spoiled, but I think they're spoiled in the sense that they don't realize that just being in it every year is a good thing and it's just a matter of the game now.
Speaker C:I mean you need to win 11, sometimes 12, sometimes 13 games in order to win a championship.
Speaker C:Now it's different, it's a different pursuit.
Speaker C:And look, I know, I get it.
Speaker C:The, the dynasty boys of the 90s and early odds they won three series also, but those you're not going to see their likes again.
Speaker C:It's not easy.
Speaker C:It's not easy to drive a baseball potion and only the really special things do.
Speaker C:And, but you can say you're a very good competitive team and you want to be in it.
Speaker C:I mean, you're in it every year.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:Certainly in it every year.
Speaker A:Looking at this year, Mike, do you feel once everyone is back, you know, Gary Cole and the pitching staff and the way, the way the team is dealt, can they be a World Series.
Speaker A:A serious World Series contender.
Speaker C:Of course they can.
Speaker C:I mean, they're going to have a great pitcher go out every once.
Speaker C:Everybody's healthy, they're going to have a great pitcher every day.
Speaker C:And that's especially going to be helpful, not only down the stretch, but also in October.
Speaker C:And so I think that's a huge benefit to have that not every team has.
Speaker C:And then you just wait and see how the games play themselves out in October.
Speaker C:But I think they're going to be in great position to be able to do some pretty great things in October.
Speaker B:Mike, what's the best part and the toughest part of your job following the Yankees around right here?
Speaker C:Well, it's just, you know, people are going to read it because people care, you know, And I guess.
Speaker C:I guess the answer is the same way the other day.
Speaker C:You know, people in arrears are going to care, so you're going to hear from them if they disagree with you.
Speaker C:You'll hear a lot of that.
Speaker C:That's good, though.
Speaker C:I mean, I always love to hear feedback about whether people like my stuff, don't like it, don't agree with it.
Speaker C:That's the reason why I do it.
Speaker C:You know, I deal with.
Speaker C:I deal with opinion.
Speaker C:That's my.
Speaker C:That's my.
Speaker C:That's my commerce.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Sports opinions.
Speaker C:And sometimes people will agree, sometimes they won't, but that's.
Speaker C:That's all part of it.
Speaker A:We know you just finished this book and it's out again, you know, wherever books are sold.
Speaker A:I don't mean to put you on the spot, but is there another book that's kind of percolating in the back of your mind going forward?
Speaker C:Yeah, there's a couple of ideas back there.
Speaker C:I'm not sure exactly where it's going to go, but hopefully I'll have announcements soon.
Speaker C:We'll see.
Speaker C:I'll alert you guys when I reach that conclusion, I promise.
Speaker A:We appreciate that.
Speaker B:As far as going forward right now with the Yankees, do you think that's the right approach, going with the patient how?
Speaker C:Or do you think they need a.
Speaker B:Little bit more of that Demanding George?
Speaker C:I think demanding George, the reason why they went 18 years without a championship.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker C:People want to ascribe George to have these magical powers, but he didn't have them.
Speaker C:You know, it was patience that filthy at these.
Speaker C:After George's the second time, I think it's patience that are going to deliver them again.
Speaker C:And patience yields 95 wins every year.
Speaker C:I don't see why anybody has to apologize for that.
Speaker C:I really don't.
Speaker B:One more on the book for Yankee fans that are out there.
Speaker B:Why did tell us why they need to read this book, Bosses of the Bronx.
Speaker B:You've kind of given us a lot in the last 20 minutes.
Speaker B:But if they're going to pick up this book, what are they going to get?
Speaker C:I just think it fills in a lot of blanks for, you know, a team that's very interesting, a legacy that's very interesting.
Speaker C:And you know, look, I mean, there's just, there's just a, there's a lot of stories to tell and I tried to tell them, you know, people want to hear them because people care about the Yankees and look at it.
Speaker C:I, I think, I think the big, biggest thing you'll, you'll see when you pick up the book is that there's a lot of laughs.
Speaker C:To me, I think it's a very funny book.
Speaker C:I don't think I'm necessarily a very funny guy, funny writer, but look, I had an incredible subject that allowed for a lot of fun, a lot of humor, and I think that was a book.
Speaker A:Well, you do, you have two struggling Met fans right here.
Speaker A:But I can guarantee you we are both going to read this book because we're always interested in dynasties and great teams.
Speaker A:Teams, you know, you think Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, they're just a brand to themselves.
Speaker A:But it sounds like it's going to be a great read.
Speaker A:We wish you all the best.
Speaker A:Ken, thank enough for joining us tonight.
Speaker A:And once again, it's Bosses of the Bronx, the endless drama of the Yankees under the House of Stambrona.
Speaker A:Mike Vacaro, thanks so much.
Speaker A:Good luck this year.
Speaker A:Stay well and look to talk, look forward to talk to you again at some point.
Speaker C:Guys.
Speaker C:Thanks for all the time.
Speaker C:I really appreciate it.
Speaker A:Oh, it's our pleasure.
Speaker A:So once again, Mike Vacar, he was great.
Speaker A:You know, it's, I know he, it sounded like he was at work, actually.
Speaker A:I think there's a lot going on in the background.
Speaker A:He's probably first, first loss for the.
Speaker B:Yankees in nine days down in, in Houston.
Speaker B:But yeah, I'm sure you're out and about sometimes you got to take a phone call while you're still working and you're going to hear some of that stuff in the background.
Speaker B:So if that's what you heard, you heard Mike Vaccaro, New York Post, talking about his book and you know, I think he's right.
Speaker B:The, the definition of the Yankees changed when it went from George to how.
Speaker B:But the success didn't.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And that's because they make sure that they put a winner on the field each year.
Speaker B:Now, it's not winning necessarily in championships, but you're getting a over.500 team.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:That's at least always in the discussion.
Speaker A:And, you know, the one thing, Chris, that kind of fascinated me as he was talking and here towards the end is he's mentioning about how this book is funny and with the stories and you don't think comedy too much when you think of George Steinbrenner, although I don't know if you've ever seen.
Speaker A:He actually hosted Saturday Night Live.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Remember that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's pretty funny.
Speaker A:But I'm, you know, any sports book you throw in front of me, I'm going to read it.
Speaker A:But this really sounds interesting to me to, you know, see some of the lighter side.
Speaker A:And he did mention that he's.
Speaker A:Did he.
Speaker A:Did he use the term friends with Hal Steinbrenner?
Speaker A:It seemed like he's pretty tight with him.
Speaker B:It sounds like he's able to get an interview or sit down and talk.
Speaker B:You know, that's the one thing I wonder about these guys, you know, when they're on the road and they're covering these teams, like, is it friendly?
Speaker B:Is it, you know, professional, but still, like, you know, Kevin Burkhardt, I think, was friends with David Wright.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, you know, Steve Gelbs is friends with other broadcasters, but is he friends with some of the Mets?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Will they go out on a road trip?
Speaker B:Probably at some point.
Speaker B:But I think with an owner, that's a totally different, totally different mantra.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:I was going to use the.
Speaker A:Well, I was going to say Mike Vrabel, but, you know, that's a whole nother story.
Speaker A:But, I mean, and you can get into the.
Speaker A:The ins and outs and the ethics of writers and what's appropriate.
Speaker A:I mean, that's a whole nother story.
Speaker A:But I think that I would definitely be fascinated to know.
Speaker A:I mean, I think back to the stories of Billy Martin, and he was very friendly with a lot of the writers.
Speaker A:And then, you know, late at night, he would go out with them and he would kind of spout off about George and players and whatever else.
Speaker A:And for the most part, those guys kind of, kind of kept that quiet.
Speaker B:I looked at a little excerpt.
Speaker B:You know, one of the things.
Speaker B:Imagine being a sports writer after George Steinbrenner goes off on Hideki Arabu.
Speaker B:You have to make sure that you type the correct letters of what he said, because if you don't Put a hashtag in there or something, you know, that could look bad, you know.
Speaker B:But what he said was basically just saying that Hideki Rabba was fat.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But you also had to be careful of the way it came across.
Speaker B:And, you know, he just was an owner that spoke his mind and, you know, at times he paid the price for it and was out of baseball for a little while.
Speaker B:But I think it's the edge that the Yankees needed at that time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And as Mike said, I think the time that George spent away from the team was inevitably what allowed them to kind of, you know, refocus into the second act that he had as owner of the team.
Speaker A:And, you know, certainly that's.
Speaker A:It's a little bit more of Hal's influence moving forward than it was, you know, the fire and brimstone Boss.
Speaker A:You know, I always mention this.
Speaker A:I'm a couple of years older than you, so I remember the Bronx Zoo when they were in that area, and then things kind of quieted down, but then they ramped up again with Dave Winfield.
Speaker A:It just was such an interesting team.
Speaker A:And they continue to be, and they always will.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they've put in a good amount of time and effort into that team, so I think that's good.
Speaker B:Again, the book, Bosses of the Bronx, it's a.
Speaker B:It's a read that you probably want to pick up.
Speaker B:You know, if you have Father's Day coming up in June and you're looking for something, you know, buy that book, take a look at it first, then give it to your dad and, you know, see what you think of it.
Speaker A:Yes, Yankee fans and just baseball fans in general.
Speaker A:You know, again, we're not.
Speaker A:We're not getting anything off the back end from Mike, but it sounds like a really, really great book, and I'm very much looking forward to reading it.
Speaker A:So when we come back, half on the other side, we're going to talk a little Knicks, you know, interesting playoff series they're having right now with Atlanta Mets, a little NFL draft.
Speaker A:And your calls, hopefully in the second half hour of sports talk.
Speaker A:New.
Speaker B:Foreign.
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Speaker A: FM: Speaker A: -: Speaker A:We'd love to have you call in and and talk anything New York sports once again.
Speaker A: -: Speaker A:And you know, certainly the Yankees.
Speaker A:The big news today, Cap, was that they lost the game.
Speaker A:They had been playing so well.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, started off a little bit up and down but then got on a great roll.
Speaker A:And you know, the other baseball team in town is on a different role at the moment.
Speaker A:But will so we'll kind of hold off on that.
Speaker A:But we're going to get into right now, you know, something that obviously basketball is a big topic here on this show for both of us.
Speaker A:And Knicks have tied up the series 2, 2 with Atlanta.
Speaker A:I don't know if anybody expected the series at this point to be tied 22 and the Knicks kind of on the ropes.
Speaker A:But you know, what are your thoughts on what you've seen so far and have the Knicks really taken control of this series?
Speaker B:Well, first off, our phone lines are open for the Last half hour.
Speaker B: -: Speaker B: FM: Speaker B:But lacrosse, yeah, we'll, we'll break it down for you but at the same time we want to hear what you want to talk about.
Speaker B:So you know, speaking of the Knicks, I just think that this has been a year where the Knicks have prepped to be healthy and in the right spot in the playoffs to make a run.
Speaker B:And for the most part I thought they were there.
Speaker B:Yes, the problem with the Knicks has literally been one point over two games, you know, losing a game by one point, losing another game by one point.
Speaker B:And that comes down to just fourth quarter execution.
Speaker B:They put themselves in situation.
Speaker B:It's up 14, up 12, up 16 when they just get down the stretch and they can't score.
Speaker B:And if you're going to go after Jalen Brunson and maybe double team him, you can't just throw the ball in Mikhail Bridges hands and Josh Hart's hands.
Speaker B:I think they're going to hit a three Pointer, you got to have other options.
Speaker B:And I think that big options is Karl Anthony Towns stepped up with a triple double the other night and I think he helped them even the series out.
Speaker B:Who's the player that has to step up in 5 and 6 and 7 again?
Speaker B:It doesn't have to be that guy in the fourth quarter, but somebody's got to make an impact early so that you're up enough that that fourth quarter doesn't become a. Oh no, CJ McCollum is going to take over.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, when Mike Brown came in, the whole thing was that he was going to play more guys throughout the regular season so that the superstars were fresh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, come playoff time.
Speaker A:And I think one thing that's been a theme throughout this year though, Chris, is that Karl Anthony Towns has been, if you can say it, underutilized offensively at least because you know, it's easy to say all his numbers are down, but you know, having the triple double, he's so capable of that.
Speaker A:And the offense, they're not going to be a great defensive team because that's not Mike Brown's thing.
Speaker A:You know, Tom Thibodeau, he was all about, he was a defensive minded coach, but the offense flowed.
Speaker A:There are just times where they look out of sync.
Speaker A:And when you're, you know, 85 games into a season, 86 games, how is that even possible?
Speaker B:Yeah, and it just seems like there's not an offensive flow.
Speaker B:It's a one on one game.
Speaker B:And you know, the fast break is a, is a regular season thing.
Speaker B:Once you get to the playoffs, if you're a fast.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a half court game.
Speaker B:So if you're just, hey, we're going to press people or we're going to push the ball when it goes in the basket, you're not going to do it.
Speaker B:But you got to have situations down the stretch where you know what you're doing.
Speaker B:Now I thought, and this was all because I was watching the game on TV or I don't even know if it's on Amazon prime at that game, the first loss that the Knicks had, I thought when C.J.
Speaker B:McCollum was at the line that they had a timeout left because they were saying they have another timeout.
Speaker B:So I'm thinking if he makes both, they call a timeout down three, get advanced the ball to mid court.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If he makes one out of two, you call timeout, move it up.
Speaker B:Even if he misses both, I'm not going no.
Speaker B:With five seconds, I'm Calling a timeout, advancing the ball.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I see them advance the ball and then I see Mikhail Bridges pull up for a pull up jumper.
Speaker B:I'm going, what happened?
Speaker B:So again, that was a situation where Mike Brown used the timeout probably at some point because he thought the shot clock was winding down with, let's say, two minutes to go.
Speaker B:You got to be better.
Speaker B:He's getting out, coached by Quinn Snyder.
Speaker B:And that's a problem because you brought Mike Brown in here to be better than the problems that Thibodeau had.
Speaker B:Okay, so that's my first problem.
Speaker B:Second thing is Mikhail Bridges got to go to the basket.
Speaker B:He is a guy that is afraid of contact.
Speaker B:He was always when he was with Brooklyn and he would just pull up for that jumper.
Speaker B:You got to go to the basket and make the ref call a foul there.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying is they need another guy.
Speaker B:This is a guy they gave up five number one draft picks for.
Speaker B:And honestly, he didn't score for a game and a half.
Speaker A:And then, then he comes out.
Speaker A:He doesn't light the world on fire, but at least he looks somewhat like the version of the player that he should be.
Speaker A:How is he so up and down?
Speaker B:Yeah, and I think that's just like a streaky guy who wants to be in rhythm.
Speaker B:He doesn't want to be the main guy.
Speaker B:He wants to be, hey, you know, Jalen hit two shots, so they're going to guard him.
Speaker B:I'm going to make a shot.
Speaker B:But if he's off, you know, you kind of lose him.
Speaker B:I just feel defensively they don't have the right lineups in, you know, at the end of the game, I see C.J.
Speaker B:McCollum shooting over Deuce McBride.
Speaker B:I'm going, what is, what is he matching up for?
Speaker B:Now, I know they took out Brunson because they didn't want him in the game at that point.
Speaker B:But, like, why is he on him?
Speaker B:You got to make sure you have length on him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And make somebody else beat you.
Speaker B:And some of these guys have been good.
Speaker B:Johnson has been good for the Hawks, you know, size wise, I think the one game that they lost, the first game, he lost by one.
Speaker B:The pain points in the fourth quarter were 22 to five.
Speaker B:Mike, that's bad.
Speaker B:You can't give up 22 points in one quarter just by guys going to the basket.
Speaker B:I just think they still haven't identified their identity.
Speaker B:And that's a problem, you know, because they're a team that to me, should have been one of the favorites to make it to the Eastern Conference finals and the NBA Finals.
Speaker A:Without a doubt.
Speaker B:And after watching the first three games that I thought anything but that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, even if they.
Speaker A:Let's say they win the next two games and go into the next round.
Speaker B:Well, I think that's confidence.
Speaker B:If they do.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:That means they won three in a row.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:Which they should.
Speaker A:I mean, against this Atlanta Hawk team, they really should.
Speaker B:They're the better team.
Speaker B:Yes, but they just don't show it for 48 minutes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So let's.
Speaker A:Let's play devil's advocate here and say that the Knicks don't advance to the NBA Finals.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Loose.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But when the first round.
Speaker A:Win the first round,.
Speaker B:I think Mike Brown could be out.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Is that what you're going to ask?
Speaker A:Yeah, that is my question.
Speaker A:Only because, you know, he came in with a lot of.
Speaker A:A lot of pressure, obviously, to at least repeat what happened last year.
Speaker A:Now, if they're getting beat by better teams or out, you know, the lineups on the other teams.
Speaker A:But if you're.
Speaker A:If you're being out executed by the likes of Quinn Snyder or whoever going forward, that's not a good look.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't always put it on coaching, but I think at this point, the Knicks have to have the right lineups in and they have to have the right situations down the stretch.
Speaker B:Alvarado, I think, for the most part, has been a spark plug.
Speaker B:He gives them something.
Speaker B:There are games where maybe he's a little bit, you know, a liability out there, but I think they have the right pieces there.
Speaker B:The bench can be a little.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:You can't stick in the second quarter and the early fourth quarter with your bench for long periods of time.
Speaker B:You got to get your guys a little bit of time and then put them back in.
Speaker B:And I think sometimes he allows to be bet.
Speaker B:Mitch Robinson can be a minus 28 for you or he can be a plus 10.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's not good.
Speaker B:No, he's, you know, he's got to be a force when he's in the game.
Speaker A:He is such a wild card.
Speaker A:You know, there was a stat the other night in the game that the Knicks blew that big lead at home.
Speaker A:Game two.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:In the second quarter, and relatively deep into the fourth quarter, they played a lineup that had not played together all season.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's where it's like, hey, if you were going to play these guys, you should have tried it another time, not now.
Speaker A:Yeah, if you're Looking to get guys minutes in the playoffs, that's not the time to do it.
Speaker B:And I think that comes from assistance too.
Speaker B:Like, you know, the head coach is not the only guy making substitutions.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You'll see this at the college level.
Speaker B:Like, hey, listen, once we get to the four minute mark, you two are going in every game.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know, but I think there has to be a little more communication.
Speaker A:Well, and let's, let's be truthful about this.
Speaker A:You and I have coached enough basketball.
Speaker A:We're not NBA coaches.
Speaker A:I don't purport myself to be one, but we've coached enough basketball to.
Speaker A:When you're looking at your group out on the floor, don't you kind of recognize if they've played together throughout the season?
Speaker A:At least at one time, you, you.
Speaker B:Know what, what guys have played together.
Speaker B:But I think, you know, just looking across the board, you're watching the Pistons struggle.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Against the magic.
Speaker B:You're watching the Celtics not be very sharp.
Speaker B:So I think it's kind of in a situation where in the east coast it's anybody's game, you could have an eight seed wind up going to the NBA finals.
Speaker B:That's just my opinion.
Speaker A:All right, last.
Speaker A:Last NBA question before we move on.
Speaker A:So last night in the, the Timberwolves Nuggets game, at the end of the game, my Minnesota is dribbling out the clock and I'm lost for who it was, but a guy goes in, hits a layup and Jokic goes and literally grabs him by the throat almost.
Speaker A:And it wasn't quite a fight.
Speaker A:So I've heard two things about this.
Speaker A:That there's absolutely no way that you do that and that, you know, it's not that big a deal.
Speaker A:I have my own thought on it, but I'm curious to think about you.
Speaker B:I didn't see it, so I don't know what the exact situation was, how much are up and you know how there was already altercations during the game.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So I think that's, you know, one of the things where it's like you got to just let it go.
Speaker B:But I've seen guys, you know, try to dribble out the clock at half court and guys steal the ball out of their pocket, down by 14.
Speaker B:And then that guy goes up for a layup and he gets demolished because they're mad that he's stealing the ball when they were trying to dribble it out.
Speaker B:For the most part, it's an unnecessary layup.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Pull the ball out, end the game.
Speaker B:And stop with the drama.
Speaker B:No need to.
Speaker B:You know, I even don't understand why.
Speaker B:And the NBA is a little bit different, but if you got 45 seconds to go and you got your subs in, why are you bombing threes two seconds into the shot clock?
Speaker B:You know, just.
Speaker B:Just run the clock a little bit more.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:And I think that's why a lot of purists criticize the NBA, because it's.
Speaker A:There's a right way and a wrong way to play and.
Speaker A:And you disrespect the game again.
Speaker B:I think it's a lot to do with how the game is flowing, too.
Speaker B:And in the NBA, if you got teas being thrown out, I think Dante divincenzo towards Achilles.
Speaker B:Aunt got hurt, too.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's out now, probably.
Speaker A:I mean, for a while.
Speaker A:Yeah, for a while.
Speaker A:And they're up 3 1.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:You know, how that's gonna now.
Speaker A:You know, you might turn around.
Speaker B:But I think once there's bad blood there, I think that also changes.
Speaker B:You know, think about a hockey game.
Speaker B:You know, a team's down 3:1 with 10 seconds to go, and the team with one, you know, one goal takes a shot from 75ft.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:If there were five fights earlier in the game, you realize that that guy's taking a slap shot to try and probably hurt somebody.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:In a game that doesn't have that, you know, draw up to it, then maybe that.
Speaker B:That shot is meaningless.
Speaker A:Pull the ball out and don't give people an opportunity for bulletin board material.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you don't want anybody getting hurt either, Right?
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:And these are some big fellas out there.
Speaker A:All right, so here we are.
Speaker A:According to the clock in the studio, it is 8, 44, and 30 seconds.
Speaker A:We've held off this long.
Speaker A:The New York Mets.
Speaker A:It's been approximately a month since we've been in the studio.
Speaker A:It was early.
Speaker A:Early season, you know, obviously winning.
Speaker A:Winning games.
Speaker A:They won two the other day to put together this little mini winning streak, but that was obviously overshadowed by the huge losing streak.
Speaker A:And today got swept in a doubleheader by the Colorado Rockies.
Speaker A:I asked you this question the other night, and you had a very quick answer.
Speaker A:Is there anything that can be done with this team?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Like, honestly, you're throwing different lineups out there.
Speaker B:Same stuff's happening.
Speaker B:You're throwing different pitchers out there.
Speaker B:Same things are happening.
Speaker B:You're trying to move guys up and down in the lineup.
Speaker B:Nothing seems to happen at this point, Mike.
Speaker B:The reality Is this is not a bad team.
Speaker B:This is a horrendous baseball team.
Speaker B:And I'm going to say this even more specifically.
Speaker B:This is a horrendous offensive baseball team.
Speaker B:The guys cannot hit the ball.
Speaker B:And then the guys who are supposed to be playing defense and preventing runs are in playing positions that they've never played before.
Speaker B:Mike, you got guys out there who are not supposed to be left fielders, third baseman, first baseman, and you expect to prevent runs.
Speaker B:It's not happening.
Speaker B:Watching a ball get thrown all over, kicked all over.
Speaker B:And it's really bad.
Speaker A:I mean, did David Stearns really think that everyone would buy his claim of the.
Speaker A:And we're doing a lot of air quotes here preventing runs.
Speaker B:I think people did.
Speaker B:I don't understand it though, because if you were doing that, then tell me what you did to put a better defensive team on the field in order to help you win games.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, you know, they wanted to go out there and eliminate themselves from certain things.
Speaker B:I'm going to throw some numbers out there, see where you fit.
Speaker B:Batting average for team.
Speaker B:Out of 30 teams in the major leagues.
Speaker B:Where do you think the Mets are?
Speaker B:I want you to be within like two or three.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I'm going to say 27.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You're within two.
Speaker B:They're batting 230.
Speaker B:There are 25th in the major leagues.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Swift.
Speaker A:230.
Speaker C:Total.
Speaker B:230.
Speaker B:Only have the Twins, Angels, White Sox, Phillies and Reds behind them.
Speaker B:Phillies have been.
Speaker B:Phillies have been horrible too.
Speaker A:They have.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker B:Home runs.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Out of 30.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Oh boy.
Speaker A:I would say they got to be in the bottom third.
Speaker A:I'll say 20, 22.
Speaker B:Well, I'll tell you this much.
Speaker B:They're leading home run guy is Francisco Alvarez with four, which leaves him as the 60th highest home run.
Speaker A:All right, maybe 30th.
Speaker B:The Mets are 26.
Speaker B:They have 19 homers.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:There's only two other teams with less than them, the Red Sox and the Giants.
Speaker B:19 Homers.
Speaker B:Murakami, a guy they didn't even want to go after, has 11 himself.
Speaker B:We didn't want to go after him.
Speaker B:Ops.
Speaker A:Again, 25.
Speaker A:26.
Speaker B:They're dead last.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:Mike, it's not even close.
Speaker B:There's 636.
Speaker B:The next highest is 663.
Speaker B:They're like 40 points away.
Speaker B:It is really bad slugging percentage.
Speaker B:Where do you think they are?
Speaker A:Well, if they're.
Speaker A:If they're so bad in homer's and the slugging percentage has got to be 28 dead last.
Speaker B:344 Slugging on base percentage.
Speaker B:Because now if you get on base, maybe you could do something right, Mike.
Speaker B:Dead last.
Speaker B:292.
Speaker B:They're not even getting on base 30% of the time.
Speaker B:They're hitting his fifth worst.
Speaker B:Everything else is dead last.
Speaker A:Now I know that, you know, you're going to look at me a little funny here.
Speaker A:Juan Soto being out impacted that somehow.
Speaker A:Okay, but not so that.
Speaker A:I mean, if he had been even his normal self, would these numbers be dramatically better?
Speaker B:Well, he's going to get walks if he's there.
Speaker B:Yes, he's going to walk.
Speaker B:They're just not going to pitch to him.
Speaker B:Mike.
Speaker B:RBI's dead last.
Speaker B:85 Run scored, dead last.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:They're not even driving runs in.
Speaker B:There's only four teams that have under 100 RBIs.
Speaker B:We have 85.
Speaker B:I'm sorry to put the we on this, but it's, it's attacking Mets fans lives.
Speaker B:They, they are literally just every day seeing the same thing.
Speaker B:To get swept by the Colorado Rockies, to get swept by the Dodgers, to get swept by the Cubs, to get swept by the Arizona 2 out of 3 by the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Speaker B:I think before they left, they got swept by another team.
Speaker B:Mike.
Speaker B:It's sweep after sweep after sweep.
Speaker B:When they go out there, even if they're up 31 in the 4th, it's not going to happen.
Speaker B:One of the things I couldn't find today is runs that they gave up in the sixth inning.
Speaker B:It always seems like they're starting pitcher in the sixth inning, hits a wall and they give up way too many.
Speaker A:It's almost hard to believe that it's April 26th and there's literally no reason to even think about going to games.
Speaker B:My know, hard it is to be 10 games under.500 after 28 games.
Speaker B:It's very difficult.
Speaker A:It's very.
Speaker B:That's what happens when you go on a 12 game losing streak.
Speaker B:And Mike, they've lost 15 out of 17 now.
Speaker B:There is no hope in sight.
Speaker B:It's not like, oh, tomorrow Juan Soto is playing well, he's played for the last few days and that doesn't change anything.
Speaker B:Oh well, Francisco Lindor's.
Speaker B:We had one day of them playing together.
Speaker A:The two of them forget identity.
Speaker A:I mean, because if you're asking what, you know, what this team's identity is now, it's, it's just losing mentality.
Speaker A:But what did, what did David Stearns think with all these wholesale changes that the team's identity was going to be and not A run preventing team.
Speaker A:I mean, what, what did.
Speaker A:Again, whether you like Pete Alonso, whether you like, you know, any.
Speaker A:Anybody that was just McNeil, Jeff McNeil, Brandon Nimmo, who's killing it and you know, he's probably like, thank goodness I'm out.
Speaker A:But you know, Pete's not off to a great start and McNeil is struggling.
Speaker B:No, he's not.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you know, Nimmo, if you get rid of that many core guys and bring in a guy that is supposed to play first base, who doesn't play first base.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:And then another guy who got hurt, right.
Speaker B:Was supposed to play first base.
Speaker A:And starting pitching sang is horrendous, which, you know, is unfortunate, but Peterson doesn't.
Speaker B:Know his left from his right.
Speaker A:He doesn't know anything.
Speaker A:Maniah.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's terrible.
Speaker A:I mean, what.
Speaker A:Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.
Speaker A:But what did they think was going to happen?
Speaker B:I think they thought Boba Shet was going to be an R. ISP machine.
Speaker B:Runners in scoring position.
Speaker B:But they don't even have guys in runners in scoring position.
Speaker B:He had a triple the other night, but otherwise he hasn't been doing it.
Speaker B:Maybe they thought they were going to catch lightning in a bottle with, you know, a guy who was going to play first base, who had never played first base before.
Speaker B:He's injured all the time.
Speaker B:I think they were trying to give guys like Brett Beatty a chance.
Speaker B:Now here's my thing.
Speaker B:Neither one of them is good.
Speaker B:Vientos or Beatty.
Speaker B:Neither one of them is a good baseball player.
Speaker B:And I mean baseball player, hitter, fielder, all of that stuff, they're just not good, Mike.
Speaker B:And we're going to keep holding on to that thought.
Speaker B:Carson Benj is a little young and I think if you let him play every day, he'll get over 200.
Speaker B:He'll get you some homers, he'll get you stolen bases.
Speaker B:But he probably shouldn't be up in the major leagues at this point.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:If you let Ronnie Mauricio play every day, he'll give you a little bit more.
Speaker B:But they didn't.
Speaker B:Marcus Simeon is not an all star baseball player.
Speaker B:You know, they brought him in only because.
Speaker B:Well, a couple of reasons.
Speaker B:You know, we can get into some of the politics of it, but they brought him in because he had one last year on his contract and they didn't want to be with Nimmos fourth or fifth more year where they can get rid of Simeon after three.
Speaker B:Mike, he's not going to hit home runs.
Speaker B:No, he's got Warning track power.
Speaker B:He's a decent to above average second baseman.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But not as a hitter.
Speaker B:He's not going to bat.230 this year.
Speaker A:And you would think of a guy in Simeon that has been in around the league so long and, you know, knows the game and he made a base running error the other night on.
Speaker A:He tagged up and wasn't able to score on an obvious ball that hit the wall practically.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, he, he just misread it and you could see he was, he was embarrassed.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:See, last year, Mike, I was pissed at the third base coach for not sending a guy in a September night.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That means nothing now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, like, who cares if Mark Vientos runs through a stop sign?
Speaker B:This team is still terrible.
Speaker B:Somebody said, well, what if the Mets were to win today?
Speaker B:They're still really bad.
Speaker B:They just didn't get swept by the Rockies.
Speaker B:If they win today.
Speaker A:I mean, if they, if they win eight of the next 10, they're still, they're nowhere near first place.
Speaker B:So for one minute, let's just have this debate.
Speaker B:The Mets lost 12 in a row, but when they were at like 10, I was listening to some of the sports talk and also just having the water cooler chat.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is it better for the Mets to continue to lose or to win one random game in there and then lose like another six more?
Speaker B:And I'm just talking like PR wise.
Speaker B:You work for the Mets.
Speaker B:You're trying to get people to come out to that game that night.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:This could be the night that the Mets win and then it doesn't.
Speaker B:This could be the night and we're at 19 or at 26 and you could be at the game where they set the record and lose 29 in a row.
Speaker B:I think it would have been better for the Mets to just go totally, totally horrible in a historic way, as opposed to just 15 out of 17, 19 out of 23, lose 24 in a row, be the worst team in Major League baseball history consecutively.
Speaker B:Okay, Just get it over with.
Speaker A:All right?
Speaker A:I disagree.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And this is not made up.
Speaker A:I disagree because I think the impact of that on the, on the long term would just be devastating for the entire season.
Speaker A:I understand what you're saying.
Speaker A:It does in a morbid kind of way.
Speaker A:It generates some juice like, hey, tonight's tonight.
Speaker A:I just think that it's from a, from a PR stand, PR standpoint.
Speaker A:It's just, it's just, you know, a debacle.
Speaker A:It would, it would be horrible.
Speaker A:But if you're going to lose.
Speaker A:I mean, I understand what you're saying.
Speaker A:You might as well do it in an interesting fashion, because there's nothing interesting about, you know, going 18 innings against the Colorado Rockies, scoring one run and making their pitching staff look like the second coming of, you know, the orioles in the 70s.
Speaker B:For those of you that are looking for a cold night to go watch a game Tuesday night, the Mets are going to play the up and coming Washington Nationals.
Speaker B:And we have a video tribute coming up.
Speaker B:You know, that video tribute is going to be for Dickie Lovelady is now a Washington National.
Speaker B:I think he deserves a tribute.
Speaker B:I mean, think about what the Mets are throwing out there at you, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like we have Carl Edwards Jr. Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, isn't that a place where you get.
Speaker B:That's really.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And he actually looked decent.
Speaker B:Of course, Austin Warren the other night's getting MVP chance because Devin Williams can't get anybody out.
Speaker B:And after the game, he talks like he doesn't care.
Speaker B:He doesn't care.
Speaker A:All right, so in the remaining couple minutes, we have, I, you know, obviously you have to address the manager.
Speaker A:Now you can.
Speaker A:I want to come at it from.
Speaker B:What does it take to get rid of him?
Speaker A:I just, I want to come at it from, from one standpoint that I'm interested to hear what you have to say.
Speaker A:So the other night when they did finally, you know, win a game, Browser Band pitches the eighth.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And comes out for the ninth while Devin Williams is running in with.
Speaker C:With it.
Speaker A:And he steps over the line so he has to pitch to a batter.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who are we blaming on that?
Speaker A:In Little League, you tell guys, you.
Speaker B:Know, suppose you heard the story, right?
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:He supposedly told Brazaban, if we're tied, you're going out there.
Speaker B:If we take the lead, Devin Williams is going out there.
Speaker B:Okay, but all he heard was the first part, that you're going out there.
Speaker B:You know, he goes, but I speak Spanish.
Speaker B:I should have gone to him.
Speaker B:This is Mendoza.
Speaker B:I speak Spanish.
Speaker B:I should have gone to him and told him exactly the situation.
Speaker B:Then after the game, he's talking through the, the translator, Alan Serial, and he's, he's laughing about.
Speaker B:He goes, well, when did you figure out that you weren't supposed to be out there?
Speaker B:He goes, when I go on the mound and I hear this music, but they can't even get that right then.
Speaker A:It's so embarrassing.
Speaker B:But Mike, it's even worse.
Speaker B:He gets the first guy out now it's no longer a Safe situation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Why not keep him in the game until a guy gets on base?
Speaker B:Because then the time run would have been in the on deck circle.
Speaker B:It would have been a safe situation.
Speaker B:So now Devin Williams has second and third, the tying runs at second.
Speaker B:We're about to blow this game.
Speaker A:You could see him, Williams, as he turned around to go back into the bullpen, he's like, what am I got myself?
Speaker A:His body language was like, are you kidding me?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean it's just they can't even get pitching changes right.
Speaker A:All right, so we have a day off tomorrow.
Speaker A:Who's managing the team on Tuesday?
Speaker B:My answer is Andy Green.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Andy Green is a, is a bullpen, sorry like a minor league roving instructor basically for the Mets.
Speaker B:He has co managed the, the Diamondbacks at some point.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:People talk about, you know, the guy Kai Curry.
Speaker B:I think he needs time to be the, to be the bench coach.
Speaker B:You know, he hasn't been a manager yet.
Speaker B:People say, Carlos Beltran, how can you retire a guy's number when the team is 40 games under.500?
Speaker B:They're going to boo him when they're retiring his number.
Speaker B:So it cannot be Carlos Beltran.
Speaker B:At least not this year.
Speaker B:No, but I honestly, Mike, how can you put Carlos Mendoza in that dugout again?
Speaker B:You can't.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't think you can.
Speaker A:Whether, whether anyone believes it's his fault or not, there's just, you know, and I'm not, I'm not for change, for, for change sake.
Speaker B:It's been too long.
Speaker B:But yeah, he should have been out at the end of last year.
Speaker B:Because Mike, think about it this way.
Speaker B:I know we're going to end this,.
Speaker A:Take all his coaches away and then put him back.
Speaker B:Yes, you took all his coaches away, but it is the same story as last year.
Speaker B:People like, oh, it's not this, it's the same story every time.
Speaker B:You think they're going to come out of it?
Speaker B:They're not.
Speaker B:I think in about, in the last 100 and close to the last 162 games, the Mets are about 62 and 100.
Speaker B:If you go back to last year, that's.
Speaker B:They are really, really bad.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, you just got to blow it up and just say, hey, at this point guys are going to have to go.
Speaker B:You know how like they brought in Robertson Canoe at one point and then they, they finally said it's time to go.
Speaker B:You may have to do that with a player or two.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's certainly, unfortunately, who thought that we would be talking like this and it's not even May yet.
Speaker A:But I agree with you.
Speaker A:I don't think there's anything other right now than, than just to restock, retool, decide, you know, who you want to keep, who you don't.
Speaker A:And you know, I'm hoping.
Speaker A:I was very happy about Boba Shet.
Speaker A:You know, his baseball card says what he's going to be, but boy does.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:You mentioned he sat in the dugout after the game today.
Speaker A:It's, it's pretty low.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Well, hopefully we'll see you back in a couple weeks.
Speaker B:Mother's Day.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:We're talking more positive.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Let's hope so.
Speaker A:Thanks to Mike Vaccaro and everybody.
Speaker A:Go out get his book.
Speaker A:Thanks to Brian Graves behind the glass.
Speaker A:And you know, you folks out there pray for us two Met fans.
Speaker A:But we'll talk a little NFL draft next time and everything.
Speaker A:New York Sports.
Speaker A:Hopefully the Knicks are in the second round.
Speaker A:Have a great two weeks and we'll see you soon.
Speaker A:The views expressed in the previous program.
Speaker B:Did not necessarily represent those of the staff, management or owners of wgb.
