Episode 243
Former Knick Kiki VanDeWeghe, Musician Les Dudek
Host Bill Donohue talks with former New York Knicks forward Kiki VanDeWeghe, who shares insights into his illustrious basketball career and familial connections to the sport. Notably, he reminisces about his father's legacy with the Knicks and reflects on his own journey, including his time with the Denver Nuggets and the Portland Trail Blazers. Following this enlightening conversation, we shift our focus to the musical realm with Les Dudek, a distinguished singer, songwriter, and guitarist. Dudek recounts his experiences performing alongside renowned acts such as The Steve Miller Band and his contributions to iconic songs like “Ramblin’ Man!” and “Jessica.” This episode not only delves into the intricacies of professional sports and music but also highlights the intertwining of personal stories and historical contexts that enrich both fields.
Show Details:
The illustrious history of the New York Knicks is celebrated in this engaging discourse, as host Bill Donohue welcomes Kiki VanDeWeghe, a former Knicks forward and esteemed coach, to the program. VanDeWeghe, whose legacy includes being a two-time NBA All-Star, reflects on his upbringing in a family steeped in basketball tradition. He recounts tales of his father, Ernie VanDeWeghe, a Knicks player who navigated the challenges of early NBA life, and how those experiences shaped his own aspirations to don the Knicks jersey. The conversation traverses the evolution of basketball strategies, particularly under the influence of innovative coaches like Larry Brown, who introduced a more dynamic offensive approach. VanDeWeghe's insights extend beyond personal anecdotes, touching upon the electric atmosphere of Madison Square Garden and the profound impact of playing alongside legends such as Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley. The dialogue encapsulates not just memories of games and rivalries but also the enduring spirit of a franchise that has captivated fans for generations. As the episode transitions to its second segment, the tone shifts towards the realm of music, introducing Les Dudek, a celebrated guitarist and songwriter with a rich history of collaboration with iconic artists like the Steve Miller Band and the Allman Brothers. Dudek's narrative intertwines with the cultural fabric of the 70s rock scene, offering listeners a glimpse into the creative processes behind timeless hits like “Ramblin’ Man” and the genesis of “Jessica.” Together, these luminaries share their journeys, illustrating the intersections of sports and music, and the indelible mark they leave on their respective fields.
Takeaways:
- Kiki VanDeWeghe shared personal stories about his family's deep connection to basketball, emphasizing the influence of his father's career with the Knicks.
- The show featured a nostalgic reflection on Wilt Chamberlain's legendary 100-point game, which took place on March 2, 1962, against the New York Knicks.
- Les Dudek discussed his significant contributions to the Allman Brothers Band, particularly his involvement in creating the iconic song 'Jessica'.
- Kiki illustrated the electric atmosphere of Madison Square Garden, particularly when the Knicks are performing well and the crowd is engaged.
- Les Dudek recounted his experiences working with notable artists, highlighting the collaborative nature of the music industry and his friendship with Cher.
- Throughout the episode, both guests emphasized the importance of mentorship in their careers, showcasing how relationships shaped their paths in sports and music.
Transcript
As always, we have a great show lined up for you tonight. Up first we'll speak to the former Nick and former coach of the Nets, Kiki VanDeWeghe.
In the second half, we switch gears as we do occasionally, we'll welcome in singer, songwriter, guitarist Les Dudek. So sit back, relax, get yourself a snack and a drink. We'll wait for you. Go ahead. No, I'm only kidding. And get comfy. Enjoy the show tonight. As always.
Before we start, I invite you to follow me on Facebook. My page is called the Talk of New York Sports. Stop by Sports Information, show information, great pictures. Stop by, take a look.
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catch up at your leisure.
Well, being that we're talking hoops tonight on the show, I would like to mention tonight is the anniversary of the game when Wilt Chamberlain poured in 100 points against Darrell Imhoff and the New York Knicks. That was at the Hershey park arena in of course Hershey, Pennsylvania.
,:Inside the park, it's not the Giant center where the Hershey Bears gate. It's the older looking building. And that's where Wilt did his damage to the Knicks that night.
Well, our first guest, as we said, former Nick, former coach of the Nets, two time NBA All Star, averaged almost 20 points a game for his stellar NBA career, currently works for the NBA. I welcome to Sports Talk New York tonight, Kiki Vanderway. Kiki, good evening.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Good evening. It's a pleasure to be with you. Hello to everybody.
Bill Donohue:Great to have you. Everyone is well here. Thank you for asking. Now your dad of course was Ernie Vanduway. He was a local boy.
He played for the Knicks for his old career and Oceanside High School Oceanside.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Grew up in Oceanside, actually was born in Canada, in Montreal and grew up in Oceanside, though. And the interesting thing about my dad was he went to Colgate and he was assigned to the Knicks. He was a regional draft choice.
I don't think they even have that anymore. That's not even on the books.
Bill Donohue:Right.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:So he was going to go to. He was going to medical school and had planned to go to medical school and was not going to play basketball.
But the NBA made an exception and said, look, if you're going to be in New York and that's where you're going to go, all right, fine, you can, you can go to the Knicks. And things were a little bit different back then, as you know. But what he used to do is take the subway down Garden.
At that time was 50th and 8th subway right down from Columbia, books in hand, run across the street, you know, right by the second quarter and you know, warmed up in the hallway and out he goes, starts the second quarter and plays the rest of the game. But didn't travel. That was an interesting team. Did not travel except in the playoffs. And the Knicks were obviously at that time.
Anybody who remembers were very good at that time, just like they are now and made the finals a few years, but he had a great career. And it was always because of my dad, always a dream for me to play for the Knicks. And I got to do that. So very grateful for that.
Bill Donohue:You did. That's a great story, Kicky. Nobody probably knows that story now. Another thing that people may not know is your mom, Colleen K.
ss Utah and also Miss America: Kiki VanDeWeghe:Well, you know, my uncle was a very good basketball player. He was a five time all Star and actually a lot of people don't know. Got traded to the Knicks.
He played for the Fort Wayne Pistons at that time and the Knicks traded for him, I think five or six players for him. And he played only 16 games and got hurt. So we won't really relive that. But he was a good player, very good.
And my mother obviously was, you know, very, very pretty and just a wonderful person. And was introduced to my dad by the gentleman and this is an old time name.
Joey Goldstein was the next PR guy and introduced him to my dad and have a picture of them being introduced somewhere. I don't know, I've moved around so much But I do have it. And he's on the court.
He's standing there right at the bench, talking to my mother, my future mother and his future wife. But both of them, they met that night. And according to both of them, they were inseparable after that.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, Great, great love story. Definitely. Now, what teams and players did you root for as a youngster?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:I rooted for the Knicks. Okay. You know, that was. I was a busher guy. Love the Knicks.
When they won their world championship, you know, we were out living out in Los Angeles at that time, so obviously a Laker fan. And.
Except when they were playing the Knicks and, you know, loved Jerry west and Elgin Baylor, Wilt Chamberlain, they just had, you know, fantastic superstars. And believe it or not, now, another interesting story. Jerry west, my dad was the team doctor, so he went over to Jerry West's house.
His kids were sick, and I called him Mr. West. But Jerry west took me out in his driveway, taught me how to shoot basketball in his driveway.
Bill Donohue:Not too shabby, Kiki. Yeah.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:I gotta tell you for. You know, I was about 12, 13 years old. I really hadn't played much basketball. I was a swimmer before that.
But to get, like, an All Star, unbelievable player. To me, it was like, oh, Michael Jordan took me out in the backyard and showed me. Gave me a shooting lesson. Okay, how do you top that?
But, yeah, he was an amazing, amazing mentor. I was so lucky I had him as a mentor most of my life. Was, sorry to lose him last year, but he was a great influence and really a special guy.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, those were magical matchups, Kiki, with the Knicks and those Lakers. Definitely. I remember as a kid listening to Marv Albert from the Garden on the transistor radio because the home games weren't on tv.
You'd get to catch them out in L. A playing the Lakers then. But you had to listen to Marv on the radio. And he painted a wonderful picture for us on the radio.
Now, I gotta ask you, you played your college ball at ucla, but you played for Larry Brown, who never coached in the college ranks before that. From where you stand, Kiki, what was the difference, do you think, playing for Larry than playing for Coach Wooden?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:So I never played for Coach Wooden, but we. I had three coaches in Utah, ucla. It started with the coach right after John Wooden, which was Gene Bartow. Great, fantastic coach.
One of the nicest people you'll ever meet in sports. He's passed away, unfortunately. And then Gary Cunningham, who was a long time. He was a Wooden player, played for ucla, but a Wooden disciple.
And then my last year played for Larry Brown and lifelong friendship with Larry Brown. Larry is one of the most creative coaches you'll ever meet in his brother Eubie. Both of them, they really, really know the game.
And he first introduced me because we ran what was called a UCLA offense or a high post offense and very traditional stuff my first three years. And Larry introduced a passing game. And passing game is basically very similar to the modern day basketball today.
And where there's a lot of movement, there's a lot of pick and rolls and backdoors. And Rick Pitino was, well, I was lucky enough to play for a year at the Knicks, you know, great proponent of that great college coach.
But Larry was unique. He was a different kind of coach. Very emotional, very driven. And, you know, I was very lucky to have him because what.
What A lot of people, no way to know this, but I'll tell you, don't tell anybody, of course, no. When Larry was my coach at ucla, I was having. I got drafted by the Dallas Mavericks and I didn't go play for Dallas.
I was actually hurt and was having a little contract issue with them. It wasn't.
little different back then in:Yeah, ABA guy, ABA guy, local New York head. And who all those guys played with my uncle, who was Gary Vanderway, who was my dad's younger brother.
Anyway, so Larry said, hey, Doug, who was an assistant coach for the Denver Nuggets, said, hey, you should get this kid. He's pretty good. And so they ended up trading for me. And that's how I got to my first team, the Denver Nuggets. Larry got me there.
Bill Donohue:Nice. As you say. No one knows that. And they never really saw you in the same light in Dallas. They really didn't take a shine to you down there, did they?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Well, you know, it was funny because the first game that I ever played in Dallas, the Nuggets were playing the Mavericks. And you walk across, you stayed at a hotel right next to, what was called, I think, the Reunion Hyatt. And because the arena was the Reunion Arena.
Bill Donohue:Right.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:They don't play there now, but that's what we played. And you walked across all the teams. Walked across. I had armed bodyguards walk me across two of them. Wow. And, oh, boy. And it Was really funny because.
So they're introducing us. Every time I touched the ball, they were booing, and they. They had so much fun. And I kind of enjoyed it in some weird way, too.
But it was really funny because my team, you know, when they introduce the starters, the starters go out and they line up, right, and they line up together and, you know, they wave to the crowd or whatever, and then all the other starters. So we're introduced and I'm out there, and all the other starters won't stand next to me. They stand, like, five feet away, all standing.
They thought it was the funniest thing. I didn't think that was funny. But anyway, it ended up that I had a good time in Dallas, and I kept coming back, and people, they became.
I found out that they were very friendly. They're great people in Dallas. They're just fantastic people. And they said they would come up to me and say, you know what?
We really admire you, the way you play, but we just love to boo you. We have so much fun. I said, you know what? I'm having fun, too. And it became one of my favorite cities to go to.
And, you know, I ended up as an assistant coach in Dallas.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:You know, worked for work for Mark Cuban and Don Nelson. Also one of the most creative coaches ever. And, you know, at a wonderful time that really started me back into the NBA, you know, from there.
From there, I became the general manager of the Denver Nuggets. So the Dallas Mavericks have a really long history and really enjoyed living in Dallas.
I must say that if there's any Dallas fans out there, I enjoyed living. It was great. Had a lot of fun.
Bill Donohue:All worked out for Kickey in Dallas, folks. Hickey Vandeway with us tonight on Sports Talk New York. Now, you had some great seasons out there in Denver for the Nuggets.
1984, they turn around and trade you to Portland. How did you feel about going out to Portland?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Well, you know, I loved Denver at the time, and right then it was, you know, nobody likes to really be traded.
And I had a lot of success in Denver, but the problem for me was I had hurt my back, so I had fallen in a game and I kept playing, which I shouldn't have done and you wouldn't today, but I did at that time and kept playing, and it really wasn't fully healthy, so. And I never really got healthy again because of it. But I ended up having, you know, a great time in Portland as well.
We had good teams and, you know, arguably my, you know, my Best friend in the NBA is Clyde Drexler, who I met there in Portland. And we had, we had a wonderful time together. And you know, Portland's got, you know, some of the best fans in the world.
That's, that's well known and you know, never played before anything but a sold out house in Portland. But it's, you know, great place to live. It rains a little bit there, you know, just news flash to everybody.
But it's, it's a wonderful place to play sports and a lot of the, a lot of the Blazers end up staying there no matter where they come across the US just because it's such a wonderful place.
Bill Donohue:You did mention Clyde the Glide Drexler. Kiki, you guys formed really a great one, two scoring duo. Why did you guys work so well together?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:You know, I'm just going to say I was always very fortunate to have really great players play alongside. And in Denver I had Alex English, who was one of the all time great scorers, hall of Fame, and also Dan Issel.
But I, you know, in Portland, you know, Clyde and I formed sort of a special bond and we really sort of complemented each other's game. He is such, such a tremendous talent, arguably one of the best talents ever to play in the game.
He was just fantastic, could do everything and you know, he liked to use a teammate who made everybody better. And that's sort of the definition I have for the star and the superstar.
You know, a star gets his own points and you know, can help your team to win obviously and will win games for you. But a superstar, and Clyde was a superstar, made everybody make everybody else better. When they step on the court, everybody's better.
And that's the likes of obviously LeBron James. He makes everybody better. He makes his team so much better. You know, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, there's so many out there.
The Oscar Robertson if you go back a little farther. But you know, and that to me is a superstar and Clyde was a superstar. He helped me be better and he helped everybody to be better.
Bill Donohue:He did. And as we said, you guys worked so well together. Very high praise for Clyde Drexler there from Kiki Vandeway. Now you come to the Knicks.
How did you enjoy playing in front of the Garden faithful and your time in New York here, Kiki?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:I loved it. I just really loved it. And you know, my only if it could be. I don't have too many regrets at all.
I was very blessed in exchange career, very fortunate, but I really wasn't healthy at all. When I. When I came to the Knicks, and, you know, it was too bad because I used to think about it a little bit.
Geez, if I was here a little earlier in my career, I could have done a lot more for the team to help the team win.
But I enjoyed the time, you know, playing with Patrick Ewing and Oakley and Davier McDaniel, Mark Jackson and all these great players, and playing in front of the Garden crowd, as you say. And it's really true. People in New York, sometimes, they know how great the Garden is, and I think they do.
But it's got an electricity in it that when the Knicks are going well and things are exciting and the game's close, the Garden is electric. You can feel it in the air. And, you know, I remember the first time I was introduced as a Knick right after they used to show.
And I don't know if they show it still every game, but every game they used to show Willis Reed coming out in that last game, you know, and it was just, you know, kind of, the Garden crowd goes nuts. And, you know, that was just. You get chills when you watch that. And I was mesmerized every time I watched. It was fantastic.
And the first time I'm looking down and I got a Knicks uniform on special night.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, as you say, a magic moment in Knicks history when the captain comes walking out, the Lakers are watching him, and I think they knew at that point that they were heading for trouble.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:No I mean, you know, he comes out. He gets his first shot, and I don't know how much in the game. I don't. I'm not sure he played that much, but it didn't matter. You know, the Knicks were, you know, rolling, and the crowd was rolling.
I don't think there was any beat.
Bill Donohue:You go and work in the front office. Now, as you said, Kiki and Dallas is where you started. You were instrumental in the development of Dirk Nowitzki down there.
When you were with the Nuggets, you had Carmelo Anthony and you hired George Carl as head coach. Really, some great moves.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Well, thank you. You know, I just really enjoyed. The only way to describe me is I was a gym rat. I just loved playing basketball. I loved talking about it.
I loved thinking about it. And, you know, to be a general manager to make the NBA is a dream come true. Obviously, we all dream of that type of stuff when we're kids.
And, you know, that was a dream there. And then, you know, you kind of dream, oh, maybe I could be a general Manager, I could run the team. And I was so fortunate.
I'm so grateful to have that opportunity. And we had a great time, did a lot of innovative things, you know, that, you know, are really sort of, you know, this just the normal thing now.
And so we were very involved in analytics. We were very involved in taking care of players. And, you know, we got a lot of things for the players.
And, you know, people really love playing there. I still get calls today from, you know, some of the players and even some of the players wives who say, hey, you know what?
That was a fantastic experience. We just want to thank you for it. You know, it's the things like that that make it all worthwhile.
Bill Donohue:Nice.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:They really do.
Bill Donohue:Quite rewarding. Definitely. Now, your time with the Nets, you spent with the Nets, you got to work with a Hall of Famer, a great guy, Mr. Rod Thorne.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Bob. Rod, the best. Yes. And, you know, it was funny. We had a great relationship and still do, you know, because he. When.
When I got hired the Knicks, I mean, the Nets were in the process of sort of negotiating to move to Brooklyn. And it was owned by a guy by the name of Bruce Ratner, and he was a real estate guy.
And he's moving the team to Brooklyn, ends up selling it to Mikhail Prokoff. But when I got there, I'd known Rod for years, and Rod had tried to hire me, believe it or not, earlier, as an assistant coach.
When I first was in Dallas as an assistant coach for Byron Scott, I'd known Byron for years. And so I knew Rod and good relationship with him, everybody knew Rod. And when I got there, we just hit it off.
And Rod said to me, you know, we need to rebuild this team. And, you know, you've done a pretty good job.
And you know, the teams you were with before Dallas and Denver, and, you know, that's not me, I think, you know, I don't know if I'm going to last much longer. You know, maybe a year, maybe six months. I'm not sure.
You know, and the great thing was, and the best compliment, you know, a year, year and a half goes by, says, you know what? I'm having so much fun with this rebuild and sort of the moves and everything, you know, I'm going to keep doing this. I love it.
And I, you know, anybody who knows Rod knows he's a lifer. He's always going to be involved in the NBA and just a fantastic. He's a great individual. He's also extremely smart. And it was fun.
It was a really high Praise to have him say, hey, listen, you know what? No, I don't want to retire. I don't want to go anywhere. I'm having a great time doing it. So that was great.
Bill Donohue:A good man. Yeah, that is for sure. Now, what are you doing these days in the NBA?
Kiki VanDeWeghe:So, a couple things, and I consult in a number of companies, and obviously I.
I think I'm always going to be involved in the NBA in some regard, whether it's, you know, people who call me up and ask me different questions, you know, whether it be players or some coaches or general managers. And, you know, I still watch, obviously, and, you know, I like to watch the games. Not as much as I used to, but, you know, because I was.
I ran basketball operations for the NBA for almost 10 years, which I loved. David and Adam Silver, arguably, you know, arguably the best commissioners of all time. I mean, and both of them were perfect for their time.
David was perfect in the time that he was there, and Adam couldn't be more perfect now, and they couldn't be more different and personality, which is interesting, you know, David was sort of a bulldog who, you know, was dominant, got in there. And Adam is the ultimate consensus builder. He is just, you know, he makes you feel, you know, great about yourself, great about what they're.
What you're doing, and everybody buys in and, you know, so very lucky to work with those guys. And that was just a great experience.
We did a lot of cool stuff and the replay center and the coaches challenge and a lot of the stuff that's current in the game now play in tournament, and it's just great to be part of that experience. And I couldn't believe I was sitting there. I was sitting, talking to a friend of mine.
He says, can you believe this is a one of one job running basketball operations for the NBA? Can you believe I'm doing this? My friend who'd known me all my life said, yeah, I can't believe you're doing this. You're just a kid in the gym.
Last time I remember you.
Bill Donohue:No.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Okay.
Bill Donohue:That's a definition of true happiness. Doing what you love, Kiki, all these years and certainly from the moment that you were born, a life well lived, I think.
And I think that that's the highest compliment I could pay somebody. And that's an example of you right there. Well, Kiki Vandeway, it's been a real pleasure.
I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend some with us back here in New York. Thanks again. We wish you all the Best, and we'll talk to you down the road.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Thank you. I appreciate it. Good night, everybody.
Bill Donohue:That is the great Kiki Vandeway, ladies and gentlemen. Up next on Sports Talk New York, we switch gears and we welcome in singer, songwriter and guitar player Mr. Less Dudek. Stick around, folks.
WGBB Announcer: .FM and: Bill Donohue:All right, ladies and gentlemen, Bo, ladies and girls, we are back with Sports Talk New York here on WGB AM FM radio. We're live from beautiful downtown Merrick, Long Island, New York.
Well, right now we're going to switch gears, as we do occasionally, and bring in someone from the entertainment field. Not that athletes are not in the entertainment field, but these guys a little more succinct than that.
Our next guest, he's a singer, songwriter, great guitar player.
In addition to his solo material, he's played guitar with get ready for the Steve Miller Band, his own Dudak, Finnegan Kruger Band, Stevie Nicks, Cher, Boz Skaggs, the Allman Brothers Band, Maria Moldauer, Bobby Whitlock and Dave Mason. That's not too shabby, folks. Well, welcome to Sports Talk New York. Tonight, Les Dudek. Les, good evening.
Les Dudek:How are you?
Bill Donohue:We're doing great. How's everything with you?
Les Dudek:It's a beautiful day down here in Florida, down in the swamp.
Bill Donohue:Ah, there you go. Okay. Y'all be down there next week for spring training, catch a little baseball, so. I always enjoy that.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Yeah.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, yeah.
Les Dudek:Well, I tell you what, today was like, I call it California weather. It was just no humidity and it's just beautiful. Yeah.
Bill Donohue:The spring down there can't be beat. I know. Well, I want to ask you, your dad was a World War II veteran in the Navy, and your mother was really a local lady here from Brooklyn.
Les Dudek:That's right. She was from Flatbush.
Bill Donohue:Okay. And she was. Folks, Les's mom was a Radio City Music Hall Rockette. How's that?
We have somebody whose mother was Miss America on Previously and now Les's mom is a Radio City Music Hall Rockette. You can't beat that. Tell us a little bit about your mom's experience doing that, Les.
Les Dudek:Well, she was a high kicker, you know, she wasn't a permanent fixture in there, but she, you know, she would fill in for anybody that was sick and this and that. She had other things going on, but that was one of her loves. And yeah, she was a high kicking dancer for the Rockettes.
Bill Donohue:That is outstanding.
Les Dudek:Well, and her brother and her brother Joe had a comedy burlesque show that ran in Vegas and Atlantic City and all over called Bottoms up for years. It was even on Ed's.
Bill Donohue:Oh, boy. Yeah. Well, something else on Ed Sullivan, Les.
Like so many musicians I talked to on the show, four guys from Liverpool who were on with Ed Sullivan kind of caught your ear at an early age and were your first influence, right?
Les Dudek:Yeah. I mean, where did they come from? You know, what was all that about?
Bill Donohue:They had moderate success, right?
Les Dudek:They had a little bit of success going on there. You know, it's like. I mean, I can't imagine nobody ever not hearing about those guys.
Bill Donohue:Yeah. What kind of impression did they leave on you? What did you think about them when you saw them?
Les Dudek:Well, you know, I just thought that they were like the Everly Brothers on steroids, you know, it's like they just had great harmonies and it was just a really solid band with great writing and great singing, you know, the Beatles we're talking about. And, you know, I mean, it's like, need I say any more? You know, Right.
Bill Donohue:You know, and the rest they say, as they say, is history. And you can look it up, folks like Casey Stengle used to say now. Yeah, you asked your parents for a guitar for Christmas back in.
I guess it was around 62. You got an acoustic guitar from Sears. Did you pick it out from the catalog?
Les Dudek:Well, it was one of those, you know. In fact, I still have it. My dad saved it after all these years. It's the little cheapy acoustic Silvertone. And then the mom got me one of those.
I forget the number on it, but it was another Silver Tone. It looked like a big Gretsch, you know, I had the big detail piece and all that, you know, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I still have it, you know.
It's a piece I can't part with, you know.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, I can imagine.
Les Dudek:But I got the bug from the Ventures, man. Like the Ventures is what really, you know, Noki Edwards, when he played. One of my favorite Venture tunes was Slaughter on 10th Avenue.
And back in those days, they were getting sounds on their guitars that nobody was getting. So the Ventures. I caught my ear guitar wise through the Ventures.
Bill Donohue:Okay, we get you there?
Les Dudek:Yeah.
Bill Donohue:The Ventures, I think. Cream and Hendrix, too, right? Gotcha.
Les Dudek:Oh, yeah. I mean, that was the late 60s craze that I call it the white man's blues era. You know, when.
When it was like, you know, all the Brits, you know, were coming over the big pond, you know, of course, they were already digging on all our blues greats, like, you know, all the kings, B.B. king Albert King, Freddie King, who I did a gig with with Bob Skaggs in Tuscaloosa back in the 70s.
And when I met him, his hand was so much bigger than my hand. I was like, man, he's a big man. Yeah, the blues definitely caught my ear. It really influenced me a lot.
Bill Donohue:Well, the reputation that you gained around Florida on your guitar cost a year of the Allman Brothers. And you were involved with the recording of Brothers and Sisters. But that didn't turn out too well, did it?
Les Dudek:Well, I mean, you know, for what it. What. You know, for what went down, it was okay. I mean, you know, I mean, I was. I mean, I was able to play guitar on their.
Two of their biggest hits, right? You know, but what happened was, was the keyboard player I was working with in Florida at the time knew Dickie Betts. He grew up with Dickie.
And when Dwayne died in that, you know, that motorcycle wreck, Peter Sless was our keyboard player's name. He caught the wind that Dickie was looking for players because he didn't know if the brothers were going to stay together or not.
So he was forming another band. So Peter and I went up and jammed with Dickie at the Farm one weekend. And as a result of that, about a week or two later, they called me back up.
And so we were going to start what was going to be the original great Southern with Dickie, you know, and then. And then one thing led to another, and they decided to do another record.
And then, you know, I got signed to Phil Walls and Capricorn Records, all that stuff. I was, you know, deep, deep in with that. And Dickie invited me down to the studio one night when they were, you know, working on Rambling man.
And, you know, he asked me, you know, what I thought about this, what I thought about that. And I gave him my. And then finally he just said, why don't you just come on out here and play it with me, you know?
So I ended up playing on Ramble Man.
And then one night later after that, Dickie had the beginning of this instrumental song, and he just had the verse, and he had kind of a Writer's block on it. He just didn't. He needed another part before we could go in the studio and cut it.
And so he invited me over one night for steaks, and me and my girlfriend went over there and. And we were hanging out and we were kind of kicking it around.
And then he got a little frustrated with it and went in the kitchen and checked on the steaks, and I stuck with it. And I came up with a bridge to that song. And the song was Jessica. And so. And, you know, it was all. It was real mystical.
I mean, you know, I mean, he lit up like a Christmas tree when I showed him the bridge section I came up with. And we ended up going and trying to play for everybody. We only found Jamo and Lamar, couldn't find Greg or nobody, but.
But, you know, and it was the kind of thing where, you know, they, you know, Dickie, you know, promised me royalties and this and that, but he said he didn't want me to play the harmonies on it. He just wanted me to play the acoustic because he didn't want people to think I was going to be in the band. Right? Yeah. So I said, okay, no problem.
You know, I don't care. I'm getting songwriters credits on a new Allman Brothers album. So I was tickled, you know, and then, you know, it just turned into a thing.
I ended up with Bob Skaggs. And then, you know, they. When the Brothers and Sisters album came out, they swept me under the. Under the rug, you know.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, that wasn't cool. Yeah.
Les Dudek:And it was like, what.
I mean, you know, Dickie literally marched me in the Walden's office and stood me at his desk and said, I don't know, you know, how to split it, but, you know, lest you get some. Some credit and some royalties for this, because he, you know, because I came up with a bridge.
And after we, you know, came up with a bridge with that, then we had enough of the. So calling to go into the studio and start working it out. And so we did, and we spent a whole week on that song.
And that song, there's no overdubs on it. We did it, like, night after night until we were like. Our fingers were bleeding. I think there was one night where Dickie and Greg got in a tiff.
A little verbal thing, and they'd split off. So we ended up just jamming that night. And Johnny Sandlin just hit the. Hit the recording button and we, you know, some of that's on that.
What would you call that? Not a centennial album, but the.
Bill Donohue:Like a box set?
Les Dudek:Yeah, it was when they re released a special edition Brothers and Sisters album. They thought Barry Oakley played bass on it, but no, Barry had already died also. And it was Lamar. I had to tell them.
No, that was Lamar playing base on it, you know.
But anyway, so, you know, it just, it just got to be kind of, kind of a bitter thing because they were just kind of, you know, like making me out like a bad guy. And it's like, look, man, I just, you know, I contributed on it and you promised me this and that and nothing ever happened.
And finally, you know, I ended up going out on the. On the Joker tour with Steve Miller and Bob Skaggs and. And as a result, Miller. Steve Miller got me out of that whole deal. Yeah.
He says, he said, once you, you know, you know, are you going to stay in Macon? I said, well, you know, not really. I don't really want to. He said, well, why don't you come out and play in my band? And he gave me some.
An advance on a tune that me and James Curly Cook wrote that was on my first album and it was on Steve Miller's Book of Dreams album called Sacrifice. And he advanced me some money on that and I was able to move out to California. And that was it, man. He gave me his lawy, here's a number.
And I got out of that deal and that was that. It was kind of a bittersweet, you know. Worked out. Worked out, yeah.
I mean, in retrospect I'm glad I left because I did so many more things, you know, as a result. Otherwise I would have just been hanging out there.
Bill Donohue:We got Les Dudek on the show tonight. People may remember on the show we've had several people involved with the Brothers and Sisters album. Butch Trucks has been on the show.
Valor Trucks has been on the show. Who people may not know is the blond haired kid on the front of the Brothers and Sisters album.
That's Butch's son, Chuck Lavelle, who they really replaced Dwayne with Chuck Lavelle on the piano. And now we got Les Dudek with us. So we're doing pretty good, folks. Now, what do you mean by the bridge section of Jessica?
For the people that don't know what that means? What does that mean? What part of the tune is that?
Les Dudek:Okay, the song starts off, it's in the key of A. And what I'm calling a verse section is. I could play it for you if I had my guitar.
But it's the, you know, that's like the Verse section, and it needed another section. And Dickie was. He was just. You know, he was really struggling with it. And then I said, well, why don't you just drop it down to G? You know?
And we dropped it down to G, and I came up with that. That riff. And then he says, well, what now? I said, just walk up. Just keep walking up. And he was like, okay, walking up, walking up, walking up.
Now what? Now what? You know, I said, go all the way to the top. Okay, now what? I just. I said, stop. And then he says, now what? I said, just start over.
Yeah, right. He lit up like a Christmas tree, man.
I mean, it was like we ended up throwing the acoustic guitars in the back of his pickup truck, and we were trying to find everybody to play for everybody. And, you know, it lightly started snowing outside. It was real mystical. It was like, almost like.
It's almost like Dwayne says, hey, you guys got that part, didn't you? Now you can go in the studio. And so, yeah, it was very mystical.
Bill Donohue:Great story, Les. Yeah, that is tremendous. You tell us you enjoyed yourself with Boz Skaggs and Steve Miller.
But I have to ask you about my favorite tune, Old Judge Jones.
Les Dudek:A little bit about.
Bill Donohue:There used to be a band around Long island here called the Stanton Anderson Band, and they did an amazing cover of Old Judge Jones. And that's where I first discovered you was finding out that that wasn't one of their tunes. That was a Les Dudek tune.
Les Dudek:Oh, yeah, Yeah, I wrote that. That was one of my. One of those just. I don't know, man. It was just one of those tunes that just. I mean, I couldn't get it on paper quick enough.
You know, I wrote that song in two hours.
Bill Donohue:Wow. Yeah.
Les Dudek:And the way it started was I was slated to do a gig with the Doobie Brothers at Spartan Stadium in San Jose, Calif. And I didn't have a drummer. And I called the promoter. I was trying to cancel. He goes, no, you can't cancel it.
It was like the Doobies, Pablo Cruz, War and myself. And so I said, well, let me see what I can do.
And I called up Jeff Piccaro, who was later with Cotto, you know, and of course, Jeff played on five of my records. But I called up Jeff and I said, jeff, I said, man, I'm doing a gig with the Doobie Brothers, and I need a drummer real bad. Do you? You know?
And Jeff goes, well, where's my ticket? So I brought up Jeff. And so when we were rehearsing at My house in Nevada, California, which is like 30 miles north of the bridge.
You know, we were just jamming around, and I came up with this riff. While we're jamming on their Fiat Pocoro, says, les, man, you gotta not. Don't forget that riff, man. So I ended up writing a song around it.
And we did it on my second. My say no More album.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, I tell you, I could listen to that one all day. Les, that is tremendous. Les Dudek is with us tonight on Sports Talk New York. Now, people want to know. Les, tell us about Cher.
Les Dudek:Oh, man, what don't you already know?
Bill Donohue:Like I said on my Facebook page today, Les had a relationship with Share. And I said, probably many of you guys did as well. In parentheses, you know, talking about the people on Facebook, probably that was a cheap shot.
But we don't know what happened.
Les Dudek:Well, you know, it was. Basically what happened was I was. I was at the Rainbow one night, you know, and I was on a hiatus from the dfk. We just got off the road.
We did, like, almost four months with Kansas in 78. And this guy, Richard T. Baer, a friend of mine, said, hey, you know, Cher's doing some auditions down at the CBS lot.
You know, you ought to come down. I said, okay, yeah, I'll go down there. So I ended up going down there, and it turns out that Finnegan and Stephen Sills were down there.
You know, Finnegan was the K of the dfk, you know. And so, you know, it was Cher's, like, auditions. And we just turned it into one big jam session, you know. And finally Cher just said, stop, stop.
It's like, I'm trying to. You know, I'm trying to put together a band here, and you guys turn it into a jam session, you know. So we all ended up going down.
She treated us all to dinner at Nick's Fist Market down in West Hollywood there. And then she came up to me afterwards. She goes, well, you know, are you interested in being in my band?
I said, well, I'm not doing anything right now. What you got going on? What is it? You know? And one thing led to another. She.
She invited herself over to my house, and I said, come on over and we'll talk about it. And we did. And, you know, I hoped to get a producer for it. So he had about four or five producers at the time.
I said, you know, you ought to just get James Newton Howard. He's one of the best.
You know, I just did an album with him with dfk and James, you know, like, later on, he wrote many scores for many big movies, like some of the Batman stuff and all that. And he had been working with Elton John and all that. Just a great keyboard player and a great producer. So we did the Black Rose album.
I mean, basically it was her album. You know, she just. She wanted to front a rock and roll band, and I wasn't doing anything. I said, sure, yeah, I'll help you with that, you know.
So we did that. And I took a lot of. Lot of flack for that, I gotta tell you.
Bill Donohue:Oh, man.
Les Dudek:Yeah, my record company was not happy, you know, but I thought, well, heck, I'm not doing anything else. And Finnegan was down here and he's on. He was on Columbia Records at the time also. So it's like, what's the big deal?
You know, I'm not doing anything else, so. So I'll go help share. And, you know, one thing led to another, and then all of a sudden, you know, we turn into an item for three years, you know.
Bill Donohue:So, yeah, I knew. I knew less you were going to give me. The one thing led to another thing. I just knew you.
Les Dudek:I didn't go into it trying to have a relationship on a business level, trying to help her do a. Do a project, you know, and we did. And then one thing led to another, and then we ended up, you know, all of a sudden, now I'm living at her house.
Not bad.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, you could be with worse people, Les, let me tell you.
Les Dudek:Yeah, you know, I mean, I thought, what the hell? Why not? You know? I mean, I made a lot of people jealous, I got to tell you that.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. Les dicks with us tonight. Now, how about working with Stevie Nicks?
Les Dudek:Oh, God. Well, that was a whole nother scenario. You know, Stevie and I hooked up with Stevie, and I went over to her house and hung out with her for a month.
I was only supposed to go there for just a few hours. And a month later, I said, you know, Stevie, I gotta go home and do my laundry and pay some bills. She goes, well, hurry back.
Kiki VanDeWeghe:Wow.
Bill Donohue:Yeah.
Les Dudek:Yeah. So we wrote a couple songs together, one of which was on her rock, a little album called Sister Honey. And then the other one was called Freestyle.
And I have that on one of my CDs, is called Freestyle. It's the tune that we wrote together, you know, and, yeah, it was one of those things. It's funny, I get a call from Cher one night. She goes.
She's reading Rolling Stone magazine, and there's a little blurb in there about Stevie and I writing some tunes. And Cher goes, who's this blonde chick you're writing the tunes with? You know, who's this? I said, come on, man.
Bill Donohue:Yeah, man. Friend to many. Let's do that. That is for sure. Now, what happened with Steppenwolf, Les?
Les Dudek:Yeah, well, that was. That's a. That's a. That's a kind of a weird story. You know, I went out. I was actually.
I was filling in for my friend Ron Richard, who we did the Black Rose thing with Sheer Ron, or we call them Rocket, you know, and Rocket was playing with Cher, you know, and then he was. You know, we did that together and then. Are you there?
Bill Donohue:Yeah, I'm here.
Les Dudek:Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I didn't know my phone was doing something weird. But anyway, he played with John K.
And Stepmo for a while, and then it came up to where he was going to go play with David Lee Roth. So Rocket called me and said, man, you ought to, you know, do this thing with Seven Wolf. So, you know, I did it, you know, and it was. It was okay.
And it was just, you know, there was some weird thing happened in Vegas, you know, where.
I mean, it's kind of a long story, but basically we're playing a gig in Vegas, and an old Hills angel friend of mine, you know, found out that I was playing in the band. He started sending me up some drinks, you know, and then at the end of the show, he invited me over to his house.
He says, les, you got to come meet my wife and my family and stuff, you know. So I did. And then, anyway, so we, you know, we hung out for a while. And then he put me in a cab to, you know, send me back to the hotel.
And the cab driver was running me all around town. I mean, like I said earlier, my uncle had a show in Vegas, and I used to go out there, and I was there with Cher at Caesar's Palace.
And I know my way around Vegas, you know, and the guy was just running me around town. Anyway, one thing led to another, and he.
I finally said, look, if you can't just get me to the hotel, just drop me off and I'll walk there and get there quicker, you know. And so he had an attitude, and when he pulls up to the hotel and he wanted to fight, oh, man, it's like, dude, it's like, you know, I just want.
I just wanted to get to the hotel, please.
And anyway, so they ended up calling the cops, you know, and it's like, for what you know, and it's like, anyway, one thing to another, but the cop finally says, all right, if you just pay him, we'll just forget about everything, right? And I said, well, I never said I wasn't going to pay him, you know, And. And so I gave him a. Gave him the money and gave him a $10 tip.
I said, here, man, just keep it, you know?
And so the next thing I knew, the cops, you know, I went to pick up my wallet, my possessions, and the cops says, oh, you got to go downtown to get your wallet and stuff.
Les Dudek:And I said, wait a minute. I said, you just told me if I pay it, we're done. He says, yeah, but you. So. So I looked at him.
I said, so what you're telling me is you want me to get back into a cab and go downtown to get my wallet? You know, it's like, well, since I got to do that, can I have your name and your badge number? And then.
And then he peeled my nose back, says, you're high on cocaine. I'm busting you for controlled substance. Yeah.
Les Dudek:And so. And so it just, you know, so it's.
It was just one of those things where, I mean, I didn't even have to have an attorney to get out of that one, you know, I just. I got out of that one myself because it was all bogus, you know. It was just a bogus thing.
And as a result, though, John Cave had been trying to cancel. Cancel a date in Aspen, Colorado, for the next night that we had to go to, and there was no way we could get there in the bus.
So he used my bus as an excuse for him to cancel that page. So, yeah, it was one of those rock and roll road stories, the horror stories, you know.
Bill Donohue:There you go, folks. Yeah. I want to ask you, Les, what's the Hell's Angels home like?
Les Dudek:Oh, man, no, Big Ron, man, he was a good dude. He was the. I knew him from the Troubadour in la. He was the door manager. The Troubadour.
Bill Donohue:Okay.
Les Dudek:You know, and then he moved to Vegas, and he had a. He had a. He had a little. I don't know if I could say it. A sort of a burlesque bar in Vegas.
Bill Donohue:Yes, yes, we know.
Les Dudek:Okay. I'll be nice about it.
Bill Donohue:An adult entertainment establishment.
Les Dudek:Yeah. You know, a real nice guy knew Big Ron from the Troubadour.
And so, you know, he had a real nice family, real nice house, you know, and we, you know, we just hung out and had a couple drinks and he also worked with Van Halen for a little while, too, as a tech, you know, so. So, you know, he was a good dude, but he just couldn't.
He couldn't take me back to the hotel, so he put me in a cab, you know, and it turns out that the cab driver was a total schmuck.
Bill Donohue:Yeah. Psycho. Yeah. We got a couple of minutes left, Les. What are you working on now? Anything.
Les Dudek:Let me. First of all, let me give a shout out to my cousin there on Long Island. Hi, Joanne. Hi, Bob the Bishop. Bob, I gotta say hi to my.
My cousin's there on Long Island.
Bill Donohue:What town are they in, Les? Do you know?
Les Dudek:Yeah, they're in West Iceland.
Bill Donohue:Oh, I can throw a rock into West Island.
Les Dudek:Yeah, exactly. So if I didn't say hi, they'd throw long darts at me. You know what I'm saying?
Bill Donohue:Yeah. Okay.
Les Dudek:So. Hi, kids. I hope you're having a good night listening to me on the radio over there. Yeah.
Bill Donohue:Oh, that's great.
Les Dudek:Well, you know, I'm, you know, usually in the summertime, I, you know, I'm down in Florida, so I like to get up there up north in the summer to get out of the heat, you know, And I usually, you know, play all around Upper State New York. Sometimes I go into the city, sometimes I go into Long island and Pennsylvania.
Bill Donohue:Well, we'll look for you next summer. You know, we got some great beaches out here.
Les Dudek:That's what I, you know, like Coney Island. Come on, man. I remember. I remember when I was five years old, I remember doing the. What was the big Cyclone? What was the. Oh, God.
I got a picture on my refrigerator coming down on the slides of the people chase.
Bill Donohue:The people chase the Cyclone. They're all out there. Yeah.
Les Dudek:Oh, yeah, man. I rode the Cyclone. All that.
In fact, when my mom passed away, I had to put some of her ashes off the pier there in Coney island because, you know, just because, you know, for the bombs, you know.
Bill Donohue:Well, let me know when you're going to be around. We'll go to Nathan's, eat about 40 hot dogs.
Les Dudek:I did that. I did that. That's a good spot for hot dogs. That is.
Bill Donohue:That is. Well, Les, I tell you, it's been a panic. One thing led to another, and we had a great time.
I thank you for taking time out of your Sunday night to spend some of it with us out here on Long Island. I wish you all the best, and we'll have you on again, if that's okay.
Les Dudek:Absolutely. We enjoyed it thoroughly, man. Anytime.
Bill Donohue:That's it. That's Les Dudank, ladies and gentlemen. That will do it for me tonight on Sports Talk New York.
I'd like to thank my guest, Kiki Vandaway, and the great Les Dudek, my engineer, Brian Graves, and, of course, you guys for joining us. I'll see you next week on no Hell, we won't be back till March 23rd. Mark that on your calendars, folks. March 23rd, more great sports talks.
Till then, Bill Donahue, be safe, be well. Good evening, folks.
